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[https://theportal.wiki/images/5/50/8_Andrew_Yang.vtt Raw transcript file]
[https://theportal.wiki/images/5/50/8_Andrew_Yang.vtt Raw transcript file]


'''[00:00:08] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:00:08">Hello, you found The Portal.</span><span title="00:00:10">I'm your host Eric Weinstein, and we'rehere this evening a little bit later than</span><span title="00:00:13">usual with my friend andpresidential candidate, Andrew Yang.</span><span title="00:00:17">Andrew, welcome.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:00:00] Hello, you found The Portal. I'm your host Eric Weinstein, and we're here this evening a little bit later than usual with my friend and presidential candidate, Andrew Yang. Andrew, welcome.
'''[00:00:17] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:00:17">Thank you for keeping the portal open late for me Eric-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:00:17] Thank you for keeping the portal open late for me Eric-
'''[00:00:20] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:00:20">Oh my God. </span><span title="00:00:21">Thanks for bringing the energy.</span><span title="00:00:22">You've just come fresh off this rally.</span><span title="00:00:23">MacArthur park.</span><span title="00:00:24">You're indefatigable, the Energizer bunny.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:00:20] Oh my God. Thanks for bringing the energy. You've just come fresh off this rally.
'''[00:00:27] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:00:27">Yes. </span><span title="00:00:27">We just had a six thousand person rally,seven thousand, eight thousand, I lost</span><span title="00:00:33">track.</span><span title="00:00:33">I was counting manually.</span><span title="00:00:34">No, I wasn't, but,</span>


[00:00:23] MacArthur park. You're indefatigable, the Energizer bunny.  
'''[00:00:36] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:00:36">And I should say that your hat is, make America think harder.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:00:27] Yes. We just had a six thousand person rally, seven thousand, eight thousand, I lost track. I was counting manually. No, I wasn't, but-
'''[00:00:39] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:00:39">Yep. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:00:36] And I should say that your hat is, make America think harder.
'''[00:00:40] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:00:40">But it's- </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:00:39] Yep.
'''[00:00:40] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:00:40">It's what Portal's all about I suspect-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:00:40] But it's-
'''[00:00:41] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:00:41">It's math, well we're trying.</span><span title="00:00:43">We're trying.</span><span title="00:00:44">So we don't want to keep you up latebecause we want you super charged charge</span><span title="00:00:47">for tomorrow.</span><span title="00:00:48">So let's just dig right into it.</span><span title="00:00:50">Um, Andrew, I'm remembering that we werehaving this dinner at, uh, Zazi, uh, in</span><span title="00:00:55">San Francisco-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:00:40] It's what Portal's all about I suspect-
'''[00:00:56] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:00:56">Yes. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:00:41] It's math, well we're trying.
'''[00:00:56] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:00:56">And you were impressing the hell out of my wife and myself, and I</span><span title="00:01:00">said, that guy's going places.</span><span title="00:01:02">She says, how candy is it?</span><span title="00:01:03">These are different times.</span>


[00:00:43] We're trying. So we don't want to keep you up late because we want you super charged charge for tomorrow. So let's just dig right into it. Um, Andrew, I'm remembering that we were having this dinner at, uh, Zazi, uh, in San Francisco-
'''[00:01:05] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:01:05">Oh, thank you... </span><span title="00:01:05">[inaudible]</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:00:56] Yes.
'''[00:01:06] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:01:06">So am I right that this is uh, this is happening.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:00:56] And you were impressing the hell out of my wife and myself, and I said, that guy's going places.
'''[00:01:09] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:01:09">Oh, it's happening- </span>


She says, how candy is it? These are different times.
'''[00:01:10] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:01:10">Big time. </span>
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:01:05] Oh, thank you... [inaudible]


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:01:06] So am I right that this is uh, this is happening.
'''[00:01:11] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:01:11">I mean uh, our campaign is growing by leaps and bounds by all of the</span><span title="00:01:16">measurements you would ordinarily measurea presidential campaign, crowd size,</span><span title="00:01:21">fundraising-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:01:09] Oh, it's happening-
'''[00:01:22] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:01:22">Fanaticism </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:01:10] Big time.
'''[00:01:24] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:01:24">Well, that's, yeah, I guess </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:01:11] I mean uh, our campaign is growing by leaps and bounds by all of the measurements you would ordinarily measure a presidential campaign, crowd size, fundraising-
'''[00:01:25] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:01:25">The Yang Gang is absolutely fanatical.</span><span title="00:01:27">Trust me, I encounter themall the time on social media.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:01:22] Fanaticism
'''[00:01:29] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:01:29">Well, I love the Yang Gang. </span><span title="00:01:30">Thank you yang Gang.</span><span title="00:01:32">Uh, yeah.</span><span title="00:01:33">The excitement is palpable and I love it.</span><span title="00:01:37">I mean, everywhere I go now people willjust say like, I support you and give me a</span><span title="00:01:43">fist bump.</span><span title="00:01:43">And, uh, uh, and certainly when wecampaign, I mean, now we, we draw crowds</span><span title="00:01:49">of either hundreds or thousandsdepending upon where we are.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:01:24] Well, that's, yeah, I guess
'''[00:01:52] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:01:52">It's amazing. </span><span title="00:01:53">Now, let's just dig into it.</span><span title="00:01:55">We're in this totally bizarre situation.</span><span title="00:01:58">I don't think the institutions havefaced up to just how dire our situation-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:01:25] The Yang Gang is absolutely fanatical.
'''[00:02:02] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:02:02">No they have not. </span>


[00:01:27] Trust me, I encounter them all the time on social media.  
'''[00:02:03] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:02:03">is. </span><span title="00:02:03">When I go outside, for the most part, thephysical world is still humming along, but</span><span title="00:02:08">everywhere else you can see the signs thatsomehow the superstructure that undergirds</span><span title="00:02:13">the simple physical realityhas really been fraying.</span><span title="00:02:16">Am I wrong about that?</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:01:29] Well, I love the Yang Gang. Thank you Yang Gang. Uh, yeah. The excitement is palpable and I love it. I mean, everywhere I go now people will just say like, I support you and give me a fist bump. And, uh, uh, and certainly when we campaign, I mean, now we, we draw crowds of either hundreds or thousands depending upon where we are.
'''[00:02:17] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:02:17">No, I agree with you, you know, and, and in many ways, if you're</span><span title="00:02:21">just living life not plugged into, um, allof the institutional decay, then you can</span><span title="00:02:26">just go out and the sun's shining and thebirds are chirping, and, you know, um,</span><span title="00:02:30">like you said, the physical world isstill more or less sound, uh, barring the</span><span title="00:02:34">occasional heat wave and, uh,unseasonal, uh, weather pattern.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:01:52] It's amazing. Now, let's just dig into it. We're in this totally bizarre situation. I don't think the institutions have faced up to just how dire our situation-
'''[00:02:39] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:02:39">So, the way I see it, effectively, what you have is a world of</span><span title="00:02:44">institutions and you have thewrong people in the institutions.</span><span title="00:02:48">In fact, what's happened is somehow thatthe institutions were built in an era</span><span title="00:02:52">where things were growing rapidly.</span><span title="00:02:54">The growth pattern changed a heck ofa long time ago, almost 50 years ago.</span><span title="00:02:59">And so for what they've done is they,these institutions have selected for</span><span title="00:03:03">people who can continue to tell storiesabout growth and to kind of play games.</span><span title="00:03:09">To keep the illusion that everythingis still humming along as if it was the</span><span title="00:03:14">fifties and sixties, but thathasn't been true for a long time.</span><span title="00:03:17">How far off am I?</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:02:02] No they have not.
'''[00:03:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:03:19">Well, that's what the numbers say, and I'm a numbers guy where if you</span><span title="00:03:22">look at the economy of the seventies youhad a certain level of buying power among</span><span title="00:03:27">the middle class in certain split interms of the gains from the economy among</span><span title="00:03:32">different parts of society, and then thelines started to diverge starting in the</span><span title="00:03:37">seventies and now they'reincredibly divergent where you have</span><span title="00:03:41">middle-class incomes essentially unchangedduring that time, and then people at the</span><span title="00:03:45">very top level absorbing more of more andmore of the gains and the winner take all</span><span title="00:03:50">economy.</span><span title="00:03:50">But we all pretend like it's stillthe seventies, uh, and you can see the</span><span title="00:03:56">disconnect in the lived experience of mostAmericans and most of the country where</span><span title="00:04:01">they're starting to catch on that thingshave changed, and I mean, it's dark, it's</span><span title="00:04:06">dark.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:02:03] is. When I go outside, for the most part, the physical world is still humming along, but everywhere else you can see the signs that somehow the superstructure that undergirds the simple physical reality has really been fraying.
'''[00:04:06] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:04:06">Well, it's incredibly dark and it's worth laughing about, I think,</span><span title="00:04:08">for that reason, because if we don't havea sense of humor about it, we're not going</span><span title="00:04:12">to be able to easily do the work.</span><span title="00:04:14">So I think whistling past the graveyardand gallows humor, definitely there's,</span><span title="00:04:18">there's a place for that.</span>


[00:02:16] Am I wrong about that?
'''[00:04:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:04:19">Well, I, you know, I, I naturally, um, I suppose people have said</span><span title="00:04:24">to me that I have a very dystopian pointof view, but I tend to present it in a</span><span title="00:04:29">positive, upbeat manner.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:02:17] No, I agree with you, you know, and, and in many ways, if you're just living life not plugged into, um, all of the institutional decay, then you can just go out and the sun's shining and the birds are chirping, and, you know, um, like you said, the physical world is still more or less sound, uh, barring the occasional heat wave and, uh, unseasonal, uh, weather pattern.
'''[00:04:31] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:04:31">I think you're trying to get us through a bottleneck that you and I</span><span title="00:04:34">both know is coming, and that, in essence,I mean, one of the things I'm very</span><span title="00:04:39">concerned about with you is that I don'twant you to promise the world that you</span><span title="00:04:43">know how to do this.</span><span title="00:04:44">I want you just to say that I'm the bestperson to handle whatever's coming next</span><span title="00:04:48">because nobody knows what to do.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:02:39] So, the way I see it, effectively, what you have is a world of institutions and you have the wrong people in the institutions. In fact, what's happened is somehow that the institutions were built in an era where things were growing rapidly. The growth pattern changed a heck of a long time ago, almost 50 years ago.
'''[00:04:50] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:04:50">Well, certainly I would never claim omniscience so that I'm going to get</span><span title="00:04:53">everything right.</span><span title="00:04:54">I mean, I make mistakes all the time.</span><span title="00:04:56">Just ask my wife, she'd be like, Hey,you screwed up just the other day.</span><span title="00:04:59">Uh, uh, but, uh, we, you and I weretalking before the cameras started</span><span title="00:05:04">rolling, that I think it's going to be avery dark time and the goal has to be to</span><span title="00:05:08">try and survive the darkness, um, and nothave it produce existential level harm,</span><span title="00:05:16">uh, and I believe that I can assist inthat regard, but I certainly would never</span><span title="00:05:20">say that I have all the answers or thatif I'm president, I, everything's going to</span><span title="00:05:24">work right.</span><span title="00:05:24">Because the fact is, uh.</span><span title="00:05:27">There, there are two things that I'vethought about, it's like, there's the way</span><span title="00:05:30">the president makes you feel-</span>


[00:02:59] And so for what they've done is they, these institutions have selected for people who can continue to tell stories about growth and to kind of play games. To keep the illusion that everything is still humming along as if it was the fifties and sixties, but that hasn't been true for a long time. How far off am I?
'''[00:05:31] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:05:31">Right. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:03:19] Well, that's what the numbers say, and I'm a numbers guy where if you look at the economy of the seventies you had a certain level of buying power among the middle class in certain split in terms of the gains from the economy among different parts of society, and then the lines started to diverge starting in the seventies and now they're incredibly divergent where you have
'''[00:05:32] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:05:32">And then there is actually solving problems on the ground, and right</span><span title="00:05:37">now, our experience of the presidencytends to be around the feeling.</span><span title="00:05:43">Like if Donald Trump does somethingirrational, it really does not affect my</span><span title="00:05:47">day to day existence, except for the factthat I see all the news reports and I'm</span><span title="00:05:51">like, Oh, that guy, what's he doing?</span><span title="00:05:52">Um, you know, and thesame is true in reverse.</span><span title="00:05:54">Like if, uh, Barack Obama did somethingdecent and human, uh, it made me feel</span><span title="00:05:59">good.</span><span title="00:06:00">Didn't necessarily, uh, you know,like change my commute, or anything-</span>


[00:03:41] middle-class incomes essentially unchanged during that time, and then people at the very top level absorbing more of more and more of the gains and the winner take all economy. But we all pretend like it's still the seventies, uh, and you can see the disconnect in the lived experience of most Americans and most of the country where they're starting to catch on that things have changed, and I mean, it's dark, it's dark.
'''[00:06:06] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:06:06">Sure. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:04:06] Well, it's incredibly dark and it's worth laughing about, I think, for that reason, because if we don't have a sense of humor about it, we're not going to be able to easily do the work. So I think whistling past the graveyard and gallows humor, definitely there's, there's a place for that.
'''[00:06:07] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:06:07">Um, and so there's, there's the way it makes us feel, which I believe</span><span title="00:06:11">I can assist with just about immediatelyfor anyone who, you know, uh, wants</span><span title="00:06:15">someone who seems, um, solutions oriented-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:04:19] Well, I, you know, I, I naturally, um, I suppose people have said to me that I have a very dystopian point of view, but I tend to present it in a positive, upbeat manner.
'''[00:06:18] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:06:18">Right, positive- </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:04:31] I think you're trying to get us through a bottleneck that you and I both know is coming, and that, in essence, I mean, one of the things I'm very concerned about with you is that I don't want you to promise the world that you know how to do this.
'''[00:06:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:06:19">And positive- </span>


[00:04:44] I want you just to say that I'm the best person to handle whatever's coming next because nobody knows what to do.
'''[00:06:20] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:06:20">Data, data friendly- </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:04:50] Well, certainly I would never claim omniscience so that I'm going to get everything right. I mean, I make mistakes all the time. Just ask my wife, she'd be like, Hey, you screwed up just the other day.
'''[00:06:22] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:06:22">Yeah. </span><span title="00:06:22">Data friendly and genuinely wants tojust try and make people's lives better.</span><span title="00:06:25">I think that that would make people feelbetter, but then there's the reality of</span><span title="00:06:28">trying to solve the problems from theperch at the top of the government-</span>


[00:04:59] Uh, uh, but, uh, we, you and I were talking before the cameras started rolling, that I think it's going to be a very dark time and the goal has to be to try and survive the darkness, um, and not have it produce existential level harm, uh, and I believe that I can assist in that regard, but I certainly would never say that I have all the answers or that if I'm president, I, everything's going to work right.
'''[00:06:32] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:06:32">Yeah </span>


[00:05:24] Because the fact is, uh. There, there are two things that I've thought about, it's like, there's the way the president makes you feel-
'''[00:06:33] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:06:33">And that's a very different process.</span><span title="00:06:36">I mean, I'm locked in on this idea of afreedom dividend in part because I think</span><span title="00:06:41">it's the most dramatically positivething we could do, that we could actually</span><span title="00:06:44">effectuate in real life that would improvepeople's lives, that we can actually get</span><span title="00:06:49">done.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:05:31] Right.
'''[00:06:50] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:06:50">Now, I am both positive and negative about it, as you probably</span><span title="00:06:54">remember.</span><span title="00:06:55">What my belief is, is that wehave two claims as Americans.</span><span title="00:06:58">We have a claim as a contributor to theeconomy, and we have a claim as a soul</span><span title="00:07:03">because we happen to live here, and, um,as a soul, we have certain rights as a</span><span title="00:07:09">human being, just as a member of society.</span><span title="00:07:12">The weaker of the two is as a soul.</span><span title="00:07:14">But that claim still exists and in somesense, what you're calling the freedom</span><span title="00:07:19">dividend or universal basic income speaksto the idea that there are these two</span><span title="00:07:24">competing claims.</span><span title="00:07:26">Um, and you, you don't want to get rid ofthe incentive structure that allows people</span><span title="00:07:30">to, um, you know, take a dreamand turn it into something, and-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:05:32] And then there is actually solving problems on the ground, and right now, our experience of the presidency tends to be around the feeling. Like if Donald Trump does something irrational, it really does not affect my day to day existence, except for the fact that I see all the news reports and I'm like, Oh, that guy, what's he doing?
'''[00:07:35] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:07:35">I love the dream. </span><span title="00:07:35">I love work.</span><span title="00:07:36">I love entrepreneurship.</span>


[00:05:52] Um, you know, and the same is true in reverse. Like if, uh, Barack Obama did something decent and human, uh, it made me feel good. Didn't necessarily, uh, you know, like change my commute, or anything-  
'''[00:07:37] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:07:37">Yeah. </span><span title="00:07:37">And this is-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:06:06] Sure.  
'''[00:07:38] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:07:38">I love people doing great stuff.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:06:07] Um, and so there's, there's the way it makes us feel, which I believe I can assist with just about immediately for anyone who, you know, uh, wants someone who seems, um, solutions oriented-
'''[00:07:40] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:07:40">So, I think that there's a theory that there's sort of a series of</span><span title="00:07:44">economic theories that haven'tyet actually been developed.</span><span title="00:07:48">And I think one of the things that'sreally important to me is that we retake</span><span title="00:07:52">the institutions because what we've doneis we've selected for people who've used</span><span title="00:07:57">very simplistic models that have had ahuge effect on transferring wealth, but</span><span title="00:08:02">have not actually mirroredour, our problems.</span><span title="00:08:05">We've selected for the people whohave, really don't tell the truth.</span><span title="00:08:09">And I'm very worried how, let's talk aboutyour, your, uh, your first term in office,</span><span title="00:08:14">which is going to happen.</span><span title="00:08:16">Who are you-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:06:18] Right, positive-
'''[00:08:17] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:08:17">One twenty-one, inauguration day.</span><span title="00:08:19">It's going to be a blast.</span><span title="00:08:21">You're going to be there, Pia is going tobe there, Yang Gang's going to be there,</span><span title="00:08:24">we're going to have a giant party in DC.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:06:19] And positive-
'''[00:08:25] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:08:25">Wait, wait, wait, wait a second.</span><span title="00:08:26">Getting ahead of us.</span><span title="00:08:28">Who are you going to staff your governmentwith if you're going to have the same</span><span title="00:08:31">problem that everybody has, which onceyou've caught once the dog catches the</span><span title="00:08:36">car, then what?</span><span title="00:08:38">You've got all of these institutions whichhave selected for economists who don't</span><span title="00:08:41">tell the truth, who, who've selected forsociologists, who are friendly to the</span><span title="00:08:46">institutions and hostile to our people.</span><span title="00:08:49">What do we do?</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:06:20] Data, data friendly-
'''[00:08:52] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:08:52">My team is going to be a blend of different people with different</span><span title="00:08:56">experience sets from differentindustries, even different ideologies.</span><span title="00:09:01">And I think you need some people who areDC insiders, who have relationships on</span><span title="00:09:08">Capitol Hill if you really want to getthings done because you're talking about</span><span title="00:09:11">possibly the most institutionalizedtown in our society.</span><span title="00:09:16">And so if you get there and just like, I'mgoing to staff it with outsiders, then no</span><span title="00:09:19">one's going to get anything done.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:06:22] Yeah. Data friendly and genuinely wants to just try and make people's lives better. I think that that would make people feel better, but then there's the reality of trying to solve the problems from the perch at the top of the government-
'''[00:09:19] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:09:19">This was, this was Trump's problem.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:06:32] Yeah
'''[00:09:21] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:09:21">Yeah. </span><span title="00:09:21">Like you're not gonna get anything done.</span><span title="00:09:23">You're just, you're just going to befighting with the system all the time that</span><span title="00:09:26">they're going to be like these antibodiesthat treat you like, uh, this hostile</span><span title="00:09:31">agent, and then they're going to justmake your life miserable, at every turn.</span><span title="00:09:35">I mean, that, that's justthe way organizations work.</span><span title="00:09:37">It's the way cultures work, um, and so youneed to have a blend of people that are</span><span title="00:09:41">like, look, Hey, I get it.</span><span title="00:09:44">Uh, I'm a new figure and you're concerned,um, and one of my principles is that I</span><span title="00:09:51">don't fault people for theincentives that have formed them.</span><span title="00:09:55">And, but by this, what I mean is likeif you show up in DC and there's someone</span><span title="00:09:58">who's been part of the fabric of DC fortwenty plus years, and they are, um,</span><span title="00:10:06">someone who've been throughadministrations right and left to sort of</span><span title="00:10:10">survive the whole thing, and their goal isto just keep that function going and make</span><span title="00:10:14">sure they get to retirement and whatnot,like, you can't blame that person for</span><span title="00:10:19">being part of that system because that'swhat their incentives have been for years</span><span title="00:10:24">and years.</span><span title="00:10:25">And so when you don't want to do is youdon't want to get there and be like, I'm</span><span title="00:10:27">going to like turn everything upside down.</span><span title="00:10:29">I'm going to like, attack everyone.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:06:33] And that's a very different process. I mean, I'm locked in on this idea of a freedom dividend in part because I think it's the most dramatically positive thing we could do, that we could actually effectuate in real life that would improve people's lives, that we can actually get done.
'''[00:10:30] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:10:30">Well, the immune system will just actually, you know, the</span><span title="00:10:32">macrophages will descend on you and-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:06:50] Now, I am both positive and negative about it, as you probably remember. What my belief is, is that we have two claims as Americans. We have a claim as a contributor to the economy, and we have a claim as a soul because we happen to live here, and, um, as a soul, we have certain rights as a human being, just as a member of society. The weaker of the two is as a soul.
'''[00:10:35] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:10:35">Yeah, and then you'll never get anything done.</span>


[00:07:14] But that claim still exists and in some sense, what you're calling the freedom dividend or universal basic income speaks to the idea that there are these two competing claims. Um, and you, you don't want to get rid of the incentive structure that allows people to, um, you know, take a dream and turn it into something, and-
'''[00:10:36] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:10:36">You'll never get anything done.</span><span title="00:10:37">So that was one of the answers that I wasdying to hear, which is, I'm going to have</span><span title="00:10:41">to work with the infrastructurethat's already there.</span><span title="00:10:44">But then there's the second part of it,which is that I actually need to see some</span><span title="00:10:48">people permanently ejected, called out,chastised, who have been this class of</span><span title="00:10:54">people misadvising our governmentthroughout the eighties, nineties, early</span><span title="00:10:59">part of this century.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:07:35] I love the dream. I love work. I love entrepreneurship.  
'''[00:11:00] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:11:00">Well, and that's the dark part for all of us.</span><span title="00:11:02">That we sense that there is reallylimited accountability in DC.</span><span title="00:11:05">Like, you can give bad advice and screwsomething up and you keep your job, but</span><span title="00:11:10">you know, your think tank's still there.</span><span title="00:11:12">Like, no one goes back and says, Hey,your white paper, it turns out it was, uh,</span><span title="00:11:16">completely mistaken, you know, like that.</span><span title="00:11:20">That's not the way that town works orthat you know, many, um, government</span><span title="00:11:26">institutions work.</span><span title="00:11:27">Um, so that's the, the challenge, is thatyou have to try and make changes within</span><span title="00:11:33">this incredibly institutionalizedenvironment, uh, and so you need a</span><span title="00:11:39">combination of peoplethat are well-intended.</span><span title="00:11:42">You bring them in and say, look, thisis going to feel like brain damage.</span><span title="00:11:46">You're going to come in-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:07:37] Yeah. And this is-
'''[00:11:47] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:11:47">Right. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:07:38] I love people doing great stuff.  
'''[00:11:47] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:11:47">And you're going to be like, especially if you come in with a</span><span title="00:11:49">background like you and I might have from,uh, technology or entrepreneurship where</span><span title="00:11:54">you look up and you'd be like, wait,you have how many people doing what?</span><span title="00:11:57">And you're not allowed to do what?</span><span title="00:11:59">You know?</span><span title="00:11:59">It's like the story of like healthcare.govwhere like the website didn't work in part</span><span title="00:12:03">because they hired a giant consultingfirm and they had all these bureaucratic</span><span title="00:12:06">processes and then when the websitedidn't work, you know what they did?</span><span title="00:12:09">They hired a bunch of Maverick SiliconValley types and threw the red tape out</span><span title="00:12:14">the window and then did a repair job.</span><span title="00:12:16">Uh, so the, the goal has to be a bring inpatriots who understand that they're not</span><span title="00:12:22">going to have like an enjoyable, um, timetrying to turn the battleship, but that if</span><span title="00:12:28">they turn the battleship three degreesto the right, they can do more good-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:07:40] So, I think that there's a theory that there's sort of a series of economic theories that haven't yet actually been developed. And I think one of the things that's really important to me is that we retake the institutions because what we've done is we've selected for people who've used very simplistic models that have had a huge effect on transferring wealth, but have not actually mirrored our, our problems.
'''[00:12:34] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:12:34">Sort of. </span>


[00:08:05] We've selected for the people who have, really don't tell the truth. And I'm very worried how, let's talk about your, your, uh, your first term in office, which is going to happen.
'''[00:12:34] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:12:34">Than if they were in another environment where they turned it, you</span><span title="00:12:37">know, like-</span>


[00:08:16] Who are you-
'''[00:12:37] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:12:37">Andrew, I think we're in a much more revolutionary situation and in</span><span title="00:12:41">part to energize people.</span><span title="00:12:43">I mean, what we're talking about is arevenge of competency, rev, a revenge of</span><span title="00:12:48">genius or revenge of people who actuallyknow how to do things and care enough, who</span><span title="00:12:56">are ready and want to be mobilized andwant to be called up, who've been sitting,</span><span title="00:13:00">you know, with major league skillsin, in, in, in the minors or worse.</span><span title="00:13:05">And the fact is, is that what theinstitutions have done have inverted the</span><span title="00:13:08">competency hierarchy.</span><span title="00:13:10">I mean, you know, there's a guy that Idon't understand named Brad DeLong who was</span><span title="00:13:15">part of the group that brought in NAFTA,and they help to sell this idea that free</span><span title="00:13:20">trade was good for everybody.</span><span title="00:13:22">And then years later I hear, Oh, youknow what free trade actually is?</span><span title="00:13:25">There was an esoteric version, an exotericversion, the exoteric version we put on</span><span title="00:13:29">display for everybody.</span><span title="00:13:30">We always knew that the, in the esotericversion that was shared in the seminar</span><span title="00:13:34">rooms, that it was a social Darwinistwelfare function that rewarded you by the</span><span title="00:13:38">cube of your wealth.</span><span title="00:13:40">And I'd just sit there with my jaw on thefloor thinking, what did you just say?</span><span title="00:13:45">And then he says like, I don't understand,maybe we hurt people in Ohio, but we</span><span title="00:13:48">helped a lot of Mexican peasants.</span><span title="00:13:50">And I'm thinking, so you think thatthe American voters who you've called</span><span title="00:13:54">jingoistic and, you know ultra, ultranationalists are going to be very happy</span><span title="00:14:00">that you've, you've denigrated theirpatriotism and now what they have to show</span><span title="00:14:04">for it is, is that there are Mexicanpeasants who are significantly better off,</span><span title="00:14:07">which, I mean, who doesn't wantMexican peasants to be better off?</span><span title="00:14:10">But, for fff sake.</span><span title="00:14:13">I mean, this is, this is a classof people that needs to lose.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:08:17] One twenty-one, inauguration day. It's going to be a blast. You're going to be there, Pia is going to be there, Yang Gang's going to be there, we're going to have a giant party in DC.
'''[00:14:18] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:14:18">Yeah. </span><span title="00:14:19">And a lot of them are goingto lose in my administration.</span><span title="00:14:22">Like I'm not a generallyvindictive person-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:08:25] Wait, wait, wait, wait a second. Getting ahead of us. Who are you going to staff your government with if you're going to have the same problem that everybody has, which once you've caught once the dog catches the car, then what? You've got all of these institutions which have selected for economists who don't tell the truth, who, who've selected for sociologists, who are friendly to the institutions and hostile to our people.
'''[00:14:24] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:14:24">No it's not I, look- </span>


[00:08:49] What do we do?
'''[00:14:25] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:14:25">You know, so, so- </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:08:52] My team is going to be a blend of different people with different experience sets from different industries, even different ideologies. And I think you need some people who are DC insiders, who have relationships on Capitol Hill if you really want to get things done because you're talking about possibly the most institutionalized town in our society.
'''[00:14:26] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:14:26">I hope he has a happy, wonderful life.</span>


[00:09:16] And so if you get there and just like, I'm going to staff it with outsiders, then no one's going to get anything done.
'''[00:14:28] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:14:28">Yeah, exactly. </span><span title="00:14:29">It's the kind of thing whereit's like, Hey, guess what?</span><span title="00:14:32">You had a lot of influenceand authority, uh-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:09:19] This was, this was Trump's problem.  
'''[00:14:34] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:14:34">It's over. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:09:21] Yeah. Like you're not gonna get anything done. You're just, you're just going to be fighting with the system all the time that they're going to be like these antibodies that treat you like, uh, this hostile agent, and then they're going to just make your life miserable, at every turn.
'''[00:14:35] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:14:35">Over an era. </span><span title="00:14:35">It's over now.</span><span title="00:14:36">Like, no, you know, not going to undulytry and make your life miserable or</span><span title="00:14:41">anything, but, you know-</span>


[00:09:35] I mean, that, that's just the way organizations work. It's the way cultures work, um, and so you need to have a blend of people that are like, look, Hey, I get it. Uh, I'm a new figure and you're concerned, um, and one of my principles is that I don't fault people for the incentives that have formed them. And, but by this, what I mean is like if you show up in DC and there's someone who's been part of the fabric of DC for twenty plus years, and they are, um, someone who've been through administrations right and left to sort of survive the whole thing, and their goal is to just keep that function going and make sure they get to retirement and whatnot, like, you can't blame that person for being part of that system because that's what their incentives have been for years and years.
'''[00:14:42] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:14:42">Well, exactly. </span><span title="00:14:43">There's nothing vindictive.</span><span title="00:14:44">It's just, I don't want to watch the AlanGreenspan Show or the Larry Summers Show</span><span title="00:14:50">or the Paul Krugman Show.</span><span title="00:14:51">I don't really need, there's no reasonthat these people get to be in every scene</span><span title="00:14:55">in every decade ad infinitum.</span>


[00:10:25] And so when you don't want to do is you don't want to get there and be like, I'm going to like turn everything upside down. I'm going to like, attack everyone.
'''[00:14:58] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:14:58">Yeah. </span><span title="00:14:59">Again, like I said, there's really noaccountability for being wrong, and so if</span><span title="00:15:03">someone presided over an era where, youknow, there was epic mismanagement, you</span><span title="00:15:08">know, we still are askingthem what the heck they think.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:10:30] Well, the immune system will just actually, you know, the macrophages will descend on you and-
'''[00:15:17] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:15:17">Can I hit you with another one?</span><span title="00:15:18">That's really comical for me?</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:10:35] Yeah, and then you'll never get anything done.  
'''[00:15:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:15:19">Sure. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:10:36] You'll never get anything done. So that was one of the answers that I was dying to hear, which is, I'm going to have to work with the infrastructure that's already there. But then there's the second part of it, which is that I actually need to see some people permanently ejected, called out, chastised, who have been this class of people misadvising our government throughout the eighties, nineties, early part of this century.
'''[00:15:20] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:15:20">Um, I watch the graphics that have your name in it, in relationship</span><span title="00:15:26">to the other competitors, and I know whothe networks are afraid of, and they're</span><span title="00:15:29">afraid of you.</span><span title="00:15:30">They'll, they'll do a linear perspectivegraphic and you'll be the guy on the very</span><span title="00:15:34">far end and then thepresenter will stand in front</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:11:00] Well, and that's the dark part for all of us. That we sense that there is really limited accountability in DC. Like, you can give bad advice and screw something up and you keep your job, but you know, your think tank's still there. Like, no one goes back and says, Hey, your white paper, it turns out it was, uh, completely mistaken, you know, like that.
'''[00:15:36] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:15:36">I have noticed that, that does seem to be a, something of a</span>


[00:11:20] That's not the way that town works or that you know, many, um, government institutions work. Um, so that's the, the challenge, is that you have to try and make changes within this incredibly institutionalized environment, uh, and so you need a combination of people that are well-intended. You bring them in and say, look, this is going to feel like brain damage.
'''[00:15:38] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:15:38">Well, I don't think you should be bringing it up.</span><span title="00:15:39">I think the job is for people like me tobe bringing this up because they've been</span><span title="00:15:43">playing this game, with like Ron Paul,with Bernie Sanders, and I, I don't know</span><span title="00:15:48">if you're familiar in magic withthe concept of a magician's choice.</span>


[00:11:46] You're going to come in-
'''[00:15:53] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:15:53">No, I'm not. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:11:47] Right.
'''[00:15:54] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:15:54">So a magician engages in a trick with magician's choice.</span><span title="00:15:57">Let's say that I want you to choose, um,C out of A, B, and C, so I give you the</span><span title="00:16:04">option.</span><span title="00:16:04">Pick two.</span><span title="00:16:06">And you pick A and B, and Isay, okay, I'll take those away.</span><span title="00:16:08">So now we'll look at C, or if you pick Aand C, I'll say, okay, we'll take one of</span><span title="00:16:13">those two and we'll, we'll throw a B away,now, which one do you, so eventually you</span><span title="00:16:17">think you've made a decision, but in fact,the whole game was, is that the magician</span><span title="00:16:21">was pushing you without your knowledge.</span><span title="00:16:23">This is what I-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:11:47] And you're going to be like, especially if you come in with a background like you and I might have from, uh, technology or entrepreneurship where you look up and you'd be like, wait, you have how many people doing what? And you're not allowed to do what? You know? It's like the story of like healthcare.gov where like the website didn't work in part because they hired a giant consulting firm and they had all these bureaucratic processes and then when the website didn't work, you know what they did?
'''[00:16:24] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:16:24">This is a media company's choice.</span>


[00:12:09] They hired a bunch of Maverick Silicon Valley types and threw the red tape out the window and then did a repair job. Uh, so the, the goal has to be a bring in patriots who understand that they're not going to have like an enjoyable, um, time trying to turn the battleship, but that if they turn the battleship three degrees to the right, they can do more good-
'''[00:16:25] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:16:25">This is what I think, it's media companies choice.</span><span title="00:16:28">And we've got a situation where my feelingis that the more the Yang Gang can find</span><span title="00:16:35">and this, this goes for Tulsi Gabbard orwhoever else might be sidelined by this</span><span title="00:16:39">game.</span><span title="00:16:40">My feeling is is that what you're on rightnow is the equivalent of pirate radio.</span><span title="00:16:44">This is samizdat for the Americanpeople, and we should be-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:12:34] Sort of.
'''[00:16:47] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:16:47">It's one reason I'm here, man.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:12:34] Than if they were in another environment where they turned it, you know, like-
'''[00:16:48] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:16:48">It's one of the reasons that we need to make sure that these</span><span title="00:16:51">channels are opened to the very peoplethat the DNC doesn't want running or the</span><span title="00:16:57">networks don't want running.</span><span title="00:16:58">And the thing that I hate is, is thatwe're in this William Tell situation where</span><span title="00:17:03">we've got to run against our own party.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:12:37] Andrew, I think we're in a much more revolutionary situation and in part to energize people. I mean, what we're talking about is a revenge of competency, rev, a revenge of genius or revenge of people who actually know how to do things and care enough, who are ready and want to be mobilized and want to be called up, who've been sitting, you know, with major league skills in, in, in, in the minors or worse. And the fact is, is that what the institutions have done have inverted the competency hierarchy. I mean, you know, there's a guy that I don't understand named Brad DeLong who was part of the group that brought in NAFTA, and they help to sell this idea that free trade was good for everybody. And then years later I hear, Oh, you know what free trade actually is? There was an esoteric version, an exoteric version, the exoteric version we put on display for everybody. We always knew that the, in the esoteric version that was shared in the seminar rooms, that it was a social Darwinist welfare function that rewarded you by the cube of your wealth.
'''[00:17:06] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:17:06">Yeah. </span><span title="00:17:07">Well, you know, again-</span>


[00:13:40] And I'd just sit there with my jaw on the floor thinking, what did you just say? And then he says like, I don't understand, maybe we hurt people in Ohio, but we helped a lot of Mexican peasants. And I'm thinking, so you think that the American voters who you've called jingoistic and, you know ultra, ultra nationalists are going to be very happy that you've, you've denigrated their patriotism and now what they have to show for it is, is that there are Mexican peasants who are significantly better off, which, I mean, who doesn't want Mexican peasants to be better off?
'''[00:17:08] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:17:08">And you may not want to say that, and I understand why, but I'll</span><span title="00:17:12">be damned if I'm going to listen to asituation in which you were, you're shut</span><span title="00:17:16">out of airtime and you're pushedoff to the side of the graphic.</span>


[00:14:10] But, for ''fff'' sake. I mean, this is, this is a class of people that needs to lose.  
'''[00:17:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:17:19">Thank you Eric. </span><span title="00:17:20">And I can say that, uh, this man is thehead of pirate radio for the 21st century,</span><span title="00:17:27">certainly one of the high chiefs of it.</span><span title="00:17:30">Um, and to me, again, you know, you havethese institutions with certain incentives</span><span title="00:17:37">and certain relationships, and they'regoing to be naturally protective of the</span><span title="00:17:43">folks that they think are on the insideand be naturally very, uh, leery or the</span><span title="00:17:48">people that they think are on the outside.</span><span title="00:17:49">But one of the themes of this era is that,uh, there are more of us on the outside</span><span title="00:17:55">that are catching on, and that thestranglehold that media companies had on</span><span title="00:18:01">our attention, um, hasweakened significantly.</span><span title="00:18:06">It's one reason why someone like me cando so well in this environment or that</span><span title="00:18:11">someone like you can become thisindependent intellectual voice that</span><span title="00:18:14">doesn't need to, you know, like get aCNN contributor contract or whatever.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:14:18] Yeah. And a lot of them are going to lose in my administration. Like I'm not a generally vindictive person-
'''[00:18:19] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:18:19">That was very funny. </span><span title="00:18:20">One of the members of the Washington Post,which you know, says that democracy dies</span><span title="00:18:25">in darkness, that's their tagline, but oneof them said that everything you, Eric,</span><span title="00:18:29">you have to say that's new isn't true.</span><span title="00:18:31">And everything you saythat's true isn't new.</span><span title="00:18:33">So it was like remarkably, there'snothing I can possibly contribute to the</span><span title="00:18:36">conversation.</span><span title="00:18:37">It's just-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:14:24] No it's not I, look-
'''[00:18:38] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:18:38">That seems so unlikely. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:14:25] You know, so, so-  
'''[00:18:39] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:18:39">I mean statistically, it's pretty hard to imagine that it's a</span><span title="00:18:41">perfect-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:14:26] I hope he has a happy, wonderful life.  
'''[00:18:42] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:18:42">Everything's been said, Eric, just give up now.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:14:28] Yeah, exactly. It's the kind of thing where it's like, Hey, guess what?
'''[00:18:44] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:18:44">Yeah, and the only stuff that hasn't is wrong.</span><span title="00:18:46">So, um, what I'd love to do is to talkabout some, some sort of new ideas, um, to</span><span title="00:18:53">undergird some of the economic things thatyou and I have traditionally talked about</span><span title="00:18:56">more before your meteoricrise, so let's dig into it.</span>


[00:14:32] You had a lot of influence and authority, uh-
'''[00:19:01] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:19:01">Yeah, please. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:14:34] It's over.
'''[00:19:01] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:19:01">Okay. </span><span title="00:19:02">So one of the things that Pia-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:14:35] Over an era. It's over now. Like, no, you know, not going to unduly try and make your life miserable or anything, but, you know-
'''[00:19:03] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:19:03">Also I want to say that I quote this man all the time, I've learned</span><span title="00:19:06">a great deal from him and his wife, uh,and that he's one of the most profound</span><span title="00:19:13">economic thinkers that I've encountered.</span><span title="00:19:15">And I've met a lot of fucking people.</span><span title="00:19:16">So, I just wanna-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:14:42] Well, exactly. There's nothing vindictive. It's just, I don't want to watch the Alan Greenspan Show or the Larry Summers Show or the Paul Krugman Show.
'''[00:19:17] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:19:17">You're very kind, sir. </span><span title="00:19:18">And one of the things that I would say isthat even when I disagree with you, even</span><span title="00:19:22">on your signature stuff, that the wayI really view you is is that you're the</span><span title="00:19:26">candidate who is most open to newideas, and you're always up for a good</span><span title="00:19:31">discussion, a good argument, and you'll gowith whatever's best, and I find that you</span><span title="00:19:35">are as close to non-egoicas anyone I've met running.</span><span title="00:19:38">I mean, you really are, seem tobe running out of compulsion.</span>


[00:14:51] I don't really need, there's no reason that these people get to be in every scene in every decade ad infinitum.  
'''[00:19:42] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:19:42">Yeah. </span><span title="00:19:42">Well, you know, uh, I, I don't haveany native desire to be president.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:14:58] Yeah. Again, like I said, there's really no accountability for being wrong, and so if someone presided over an era where, you know, there was epic mismanagement, you know, we still are asking them what the heck they think.
'''[00:19:47] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:19:47">I didn't felt that you ever did.</span><span title="00:19:48">And it was one of the reasons Ilove the fact that you're running.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:15:17] Can I hit you with another one? That's really comical for me?
'''[00:19:51] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:19:51">Yeah. </span><span title="00:19:51">I think my, one of my main qualificationsto be president is that I just don't</span><span title="00:19:57">socialize that much in the sense of likeif you have me around a bunch of fancy</span><span title="00:20:02">stuff, like it reallydoesn't do anything for me.</span><span title="00:20:05">Like, you know, as president, I wouldlove to do away with a lot of the-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:15:19] Sure.
'''[00:20:08] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:20:08">You do like geeking out, </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:15:20] Um, I watch the graphics that have your name in it, in relationship to the other competitors, and I know who the networks are afraid of, and they're afraid of you. They'll, they'll do a linear perspective graphic and you'll be the guy on the very far end and then the presenter will stand in front
'''[00:20:09] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:20:09">Like the ceremony, like it seems like, um, like it's</span><span title="00:20:13">counterproductive.</span><span title="00:20:15">Um, and no, I, I ha, I happen to thinkthat might help me do a better job.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:15:36] I have noticed that, that does seem to be a, something of a
'''[00:20:20] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:20:20">So let's try to geek out on a couple of ideas that Pia and I've</span><span title="00:20:23">been playing with, see what you think.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:15:38] Well, I don't think you should be bringing it up. I think the job is for people like me to be bringing this up because they've been playing this game, with like Ron Paul, with Bernie Sanders, and I, I don't know if you're familiar in magic with the concept of a magician's choice.  
'''[00:20:24] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:20:24">Yeah. </span><span title="00:20:25">I love it.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:15:53] No, I'm not.  
'''[00:20:25] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:20:25">Okay. </span><span title="00:20:26">So one of the things that we've beenthinking about is some people start</span><span title="00:20:29">talking about the difference between theshareholder economy of the past and the</span><span title="00:20:34">stakeholder economy of the future.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:15:54] So a magician engages in a trick with magician's choice.
'''[00:20:35] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:20:35">Yup </span>


[00:15:57] Let's say that I want you to choose, um, C out of A, B, and C, so I give you the option. Pick two. And you pick A and B, and I say, okay, I'll take those away. So now we'll look at C, or if you pick A and C, I'll say, okay, we'll take one of those two and we'll, we'll throw a B away, now, which one do you, so eventually you think you've made a decision, but in fact, the whole game was, is that the magician was pushing you without your knowledge. This is what I-
'''[00:20:36] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:20:36">Um, there are other issues about the dignity of work and, um, what</span><span title="00:20:42">happens when machines replace you?</span><span title="00:20:44">You can't necessarily defend yourselfeconomically, but you still have a reason</span><span title="00:20:48">to get up in the morning and do something.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:16:24] This is a media company's choice.
'''[00:20:50] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:20:50">Oh we hope you have a reason that you get up and do something.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:16:25] This is what I think, it's media companies choice. And we've got a situation where my feeling is that the more the Yang Gang can find and this, this goes for Tulsi Gabbard or whoever else might be sidelined by this game. My feeling is is that what you're on right now is the equivalent of pirate radio.
'''[00:20:52] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:20:52">Amen. </span><span title="00:20:52">Now, the thing is, uh, we've been thinkingabout this paradigm from object oriented</span><span title="00:20:58">programming, which is the differencebetween is-a versus has-a.</span><span title="00:21:03">So, if a Lamborghini can play a, an FMbroadcast, uh, through its speaker, you</span><span title="00:21:10">could technically find out that by somedefinition, the Lamborghini is a radio.</span><span title="00:21:17">But that seems absurd.</span><span title="00:21:18">It's much more sane tosay that it has a radio.</span><span title="00:21:22">Just the way it has a transmission.</span><span title="00:21:24">We make this error, I thinkwhen we talk about workers.</span><span title="00:21:28">We say that person is a worker, they area brick layer or, or a teamster, you know?</span>


[00:16:44] This is samizdat for the American people, and we should be-
'''[00:21:34] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:21:34">Completely. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:16:47] It's one reason I'm here, man.  
'''[00:21:35] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:21:35">And that what we need to do is to readjust our model of an economic</span><span title="00:21:40">agent to a has-a model.</span><span title="00:21:42">And so the idea is that you may havea breadwinner, and you also have a</span><span title="00:21:47">contributor, and you also have a consumer,and therefore what it is that we do all</span><span title="00:21:53">day long in the face of the, of theautomation that may or may not get here in</span><span title="00:21:56">dribs and drabs or come as a wave, wedon't know, that we need to have a model</span><span title="00:22:02">of humans that recognizes a need to beactive in the economy whether or not the</span><span title="00:22:08">marginal product of our labor issufficient to take care of our family.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:16:48] It's one of the reasons that we need to make sure that these channels are opened to the very people that the DNC doesn't want running or the networks don't want running. And the thing that I hate is, is that we're in this William Tell situation where we've got to run against our own party.
'''[00:22:13] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:22:13">I love it so much and I couldn't agree more.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:17:06] Yeah. Well, you know, again-  
'''[00:22:15] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:22:15">Okay. </span><span title="00:22:16">So that's, that would be the kind of aresearch program that we would love to try</span><span title="00:22:20">to see undergirding a new economy thatrecognizes a much richer concept, uh, of</span><span title="00:22:27">an agent, um, but without it, I'm worriedthat, that, you know, the, the sort of,</span><span title="00:22:32">the power of that Chicago-style thinkingpushes us back into humans as widgets.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:17:08] And you may not want to say that, and I understand why, but I'll be damned if I'm going to listen to a situation in which you were, you're shut out of airtime and you're pushed off to the side of the graphic.
'''[00:22:37] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:22:37">Well, humans is, widgets is predominant, uh, and you can see it at</span><span title="00:22:41">every turn, where even if you ask a kid,what do you want to be when you grow up?</span><span title="00:22:44">It's, you know, they'll say, I want to bea fireman, astronaut, baker, a scientist,</span><span title="00:22:50">whatever it happens to be.</span><span title="00:22:52">And by the numbers, we are more workobsessed now than we perhaps have ever</span><span title="00:22:57">been, um, and trying tobreak up our identities-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:17:19] Thank you Eric. And I can say that, uh, this man is the head of pirate radio for the 21st century, certainly one of the high chiefs of it.
'''[00:23:02] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:23:02">Sure. </span>


[00:17:30] Um, and to me, again, you know, you have these institutions with certain incentives and certain relationships, and they're going to be naturally protective of the folks that they think are on the inside and be naturally very, uh, leery or the people that they think are on the outside. But one of the themes of this era is that, uh, there are more of us on the outside that are catching on, and that the stranglehold that media companies had on our attention, um, has weakened significantly. It's one reason why someone like me can do so well in this environment or that someone like you can become this independent intellectual voice that doesn't need to, you know, like get a CNN contributor contract or whatever.
'''[00:23:02] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:23:02">Into several aspects where you take a trucker who's on the road away</span><span title="00:23:08">from his family four days a week andsay, you know, your a dad, you're like a</span><span title="00:23:14">consumer of, of hunting gear or you know,like you, um, there's more to you than</span><span title="00:23:22">being a trucker when theyhave shaped their life-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:18:19] That was very funny. One of the members of the Washington Post, which you know, says that democracy dies in darkness, that's their tagline, but one of them said that everything you, Eric, you have to say that's new isn't true. And everything you say that's true isn't new. So it was like remarkably, there's nothing I can possibly contribute to the conversation.  
'''[00:23:26] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:23:26">Right. </span>


[00:18:37] It's just-
'''[00:23:26] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:23:26">Around being a trucker. </span><span title="00:23:27">Because you know, it's literally, you'rebehind the wheel for fourteen hours a day.</span><span title="00:23:33">You get out, you sleep at a rest stop.</span><span title="00:23:35">I mean, these are all consuming types ofexistences that are filled by hundreds of</span><span title="00:23:41">thousands of american men, andyou know, 94% of them are men.</span><span title="00:23:46">So, you know, it's not like, Oh, he justthinks they're all men, it's like, come</span><span title="00:23:48">on.</span><span title="00:23:49">94% of them are.</span><span title="00:23:51">Uh, and so if you were to go to thatperson and then try and have them adopt a</span><span title="00:23:55">more holistic identity when they haveessentially shaped their entire existence</span><span title="00:24:00">around, uh, their role in this real life,uh, like almost circulatory system, where</span><span title="00:24:09">it's like they're piloting this bloodvessel that has a bunch of, um, Home Depot</span><span title="00:24:14">crap in the back or whatever the heckthey're transporting on like a daily</span><span title="00:24:18">basis.</span><span title="00:24:19">Um, having them have other aspects oftheir identity that they value to a point</span><span title="00:24:26">where you could remove the work componentand they would, you know, be cool with</span><span title="00:24:31">going home, and, um, spending time withtheir, their families, um, is pretty much</span><span title="00:24:39">the opposite of the way ourcivilization functions right now.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:18:38] That seems so unlikely.
'''[00:24:42] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:24:42">Well we saw these deaths of despair, uh, discussed by economists</span><span title="00:24:46">in, in the, you know, the heartland ofAmerica, we saw this demographic, um,</span><span title="00:24:52">crisis that happened when the SovietUnion fell apart with, um, you know, the</span><span title="00:24:58">mortality crisis.</span><span title="00:25:00">Uh, all sorts of people were dying ofalcoholism, heart attacks and stress.</span><span title="00:25:04">So this is a really serious thing we haveto figure out about the restoration of</span><span title="00:25:09">human meaning and dignity asdifferent from employment.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:18:39] I mean statistically, it's pretty hard to imagine that it's a perfect-  
'''[00:25:13] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:25:13">You had something like a dozen disenfranchised taxi cab drivers and</span><span title="00:25:18">limo drivers kill themselves, uh, youknow, last year, like one of whom killed</span><span title="00:25:22">himself in front of city hall.</span><span title="00:25:24">I mean, like did his self-destructioncaused meaningful ripples in our society?</span><span title="00:25:29">No.</span><span title="00:25:29">Most people watching this andlistening to this right now.</span><span title="00:25:31">It's like, Oh, that shit happened?</span><span title="00:25:32">Like, you know, like, but there's thissort of self destruction is happening all</span><span title="00:25:37">the time, and most of them are just menquietly drinking themselves to death in</span><span title="00:25:42">their homes and thenyou know, they're dead.</span><span title="00:25:44">Uh, but-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:18:42] Everything's been said, Eric, just give up now.  
'''[00:25:46] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:25:46">Well, I love the idea that you're talking about compassion for men</span><span title="00:25:49">because one of the things that I'm findingis that it's very tough to talk in a, in</span><span title="00:25:54">a, in a world that is currently exploringthis idea of toxic masculinity from some</span><span title="00:25:59">place that it might've been reasonablydefined in blowing it up past, uh, past</span><span title="00:26:04">that point.</span><span title="00:26:05">It's a very dangerous thing to see a worldthat sort of thinks that, you know, all</span><span title="00:26:11">straight, white guys are okay when infact, many of them are very vulnerable</span><span title="00:26:15">and, and-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:18:44] Yeah, and the only stuff that hasn't is wrong.
'''[00:26:16] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:26:16">By the numbers, </span>


[00:18:46] So, um, what I'd love to do is to talk about some, some sort of new ideas, um, to undergird some of the economic things that you and I have traditionally talked about more before your meteoric rise, so let's dig into it.  
'''[00:26:17] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:26:17">By the numbers. </span><span title="00:26:17">Right.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:19:01] Yeah, please.  
'''[00:26:18] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:26:18">You know, and yeah. </span><span title="00:26:19">It's so, uh, the, and this is one of thethemes that when you talk about trying to</span><span title="00:26:24">define people, um, by different aspects oftheir life that might have work as one of</span><span title="00:26:32">them, but like others, the fact is, Ithink men struggle more with breaking up</span><span title="00:26:38">our identities, um, then women do.</span><span title="00:26:41">Because if you were to say to a woman, uh,Hey, you're a parent, you're, you know, a</span><span title="00:26:45">sister, you're, um, a nurse, you're like,all of these things, I think they would be</span><span title="00:26:50">more ready to embrace some of the non-workaspects of their identity, in part because</span><span title="00:26:56">of the cultural load that is placed ondifferent types of people in our society.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:19:01] Okay. So one of the things that Pia-
'''[00:27:01] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:27:01">Yeah but I think they're facing a big one coming up, which is that</span><span title="00:27:03">you're going to have a huge cohort ofmillennial females who pretty much would,</span><span title="00:27:10">would love to be in a situation withmeaningful work, but also with a family</span><span title="00:27:14">raising children of their own.</span><span title="00:27:16">And there's, first of all, isn'tnecessarily a supply of guys who can rise</span><span title="00:27:23">to the, I mean, you know, it doesn't haveto be traditional households, but a lot of</span><span title="00:27:26">it is going to be male, femalebreadwinner, somebody stays at home, it</span><span title="00:27:30">might be the woman who's in the workforce,might be the guy staying home, whatever.</span><span title="00:27:33">The fact is a lot of these families aren'tgoing to form because we're not in a</span><span title="00:27:38">position to say, I can afforda thirty year mortgage.</span><span title="00:27:42">I can see enough stabilityin my future, I can-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:19:03] Also I want to say that I quote this man all the time, I've learned a great deal from him and his wife, uh, and that he's one of the most profound economic thinkers that I've encountered. And I've met a lot of fucking people. So, I just wanna-
'''[00:27:45] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:27:45">Yeah, and that's part of the thing is that these challenges face us all</span><span title="00:27:49">in different ways, and it's really, to me,counterproductive to disastrous, to single</span><span title="00:27:55">out a particular subset ups andbe like, Hey, you've got it wrong.</span><span title="00:27:58">You're okay.</span><span title="00:28:00">You know, that's a legitimate, uh, youknow, like thing to be upset about that is</span><span title="00:28:05">not, I mean, like if, if someone, um, isstruggling, like it ends up reaching, uh,</span><span title="00:28:13">different groups in different ways.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:19:17] You're very kind, sir. And one of the things that I would say is that even when I disagree with you, even on your signature stuff, that the way I really view you is is that you're the candidate who is most open to new ideas, and you're always up for a good discussion, a good argument, and you'll go with whatever's best, and I find that you are as close to non-egoic as anyone I've met running. I mean, you really are, seem to be running out of compulsion.  
'''[00:28:14] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:28:14">Right. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:19:42] Yeah. Well, you know, uh, I, I don't have any native desire to be president.
'''[00:28:15] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:28:15">And you can't say it's like, Oh, your struggles are somehow more, um,</span><span title="00:28:19">valid than others.</span><span title="00:28:21">So just to, to, to wrap around thisthought, so I think that the division of</span><span title="00:28:27">our identities intolike work and non-work-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:19:47] I didn't felt that you ever did.
'''[00:28:30] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:28:30">Right. </span>


[00:19:48] And it was one of the reasons I love the fact that you're running.  
'''[00:28:30] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:28:30">Uh, it's one of the greatest things we have to overcome.</span><span title="00:28:36">And by the numbers, if you lose your joband you're a man, um, you tend to have</span><span title="00:28:44">relatively, uh, self-destructive patternsof behavior manifest, um, relatively</span><span title="00:28:52">consistently and quickly, where unemployedmen volunteer less than employed men</span><span title="00:28:57">despite having much morefree time, as an example.</span><span title="00:29:00">Uh, substance abuse tends to go up,uh, in very self destructive behaviors.</span><span title="00:29:04">A lot of time spent on the computer goesup, which, so that's a combination of, um,</span><span title="00:29:10">gaming and some other things, uh, and-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:19:51] Yeah. I think my, one of my main qualifications to be president is that I just don't socialize that much in the sense of like if you have me around a bunch of fancy stuff, like it really doesn't do anything for me. Like, you know, as president, I would love to do away with a lot of the-
'''[00:29:14] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:29:14">Porn. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:20:08] You do like geeking out,  
'''[00:29:14] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:29:14">And porn, I'm sure is, you know, I didn't, I mean, I kind of implied</span><span title="00:29:18">it and, but I was thinking it-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:20:09] Like the ceremony, like it seems like, um, like it's counterproductive. Um, and no, I, I ha, I happen to think that might help me do a better job.  
'''[00:29:20] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:29:20">No no no, look, this, this is a free radio station, effectively, and</span><span title="00:29:23">we're going to be able to say that that'sone of the things that may be deranging</span><span title="00:29:26">us.</span><span title="00:29:27">We don't know what its effects are.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:20:20] So let's try to geek out on a couple of ideas that Pia and I've been playing with, see what you think.  
'''[00:29:29] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:29:29">Yeah, no, so, uh, and that women have struggles obviously, but the</span><span title="00:29:36">struggles take a different form in termsof, and the numbers show that women are</span><span title="00:29:42">more adaptable to non-work idleness inthat they will not share the same patterns</span><span title="00:29:48">of self-destructive behavior that men do.</span><span title="00:29:50">Now, of course, women obviously, you know,hate to be unemployed, but the, that, the</span><span title="00:29:54">thing that I joke about that's sort oftrue is that women however, are never</span><span title="00:29:57">truly idle in the sense that they alwaysfind like, um, like, like ways to be, um,</span><span title="00:30:05">productive contributors in a way thatmen struggle with, in many respects.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:20:24] Yeah. I love it.  
'''[00:30:07] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:30:07">So kin work for example, where you're working for your family,</span><span title="00:30:10">taking care of elderly parents, your kids,somebody else's kids, these things are</span><span title="00:30:17">part of the fabric of civil society.</span><span title="00:30:19">One of the questions I have is, shouldwe talk about coming up with some new</span><span title="00:30:23">financial products that get women themoney they need during the period of their</span><span title="00:30:27">life when they might needextra help in the house?</span><span title="00:30:30">When they, when the binds that come fromcaring for elderly parents or children are</span><span title="00:30:36">starting to knock them out of theworkforce and trying to figure out how to</span><span title="00:30:39">make some kind of creative structure tohelp, um, shift the burdens to times of</span><span title="00:30:47">their life when they can better afford it.</span><span title="00:30:49">What do you think about that?</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:20:25] Okay. So one of the things that we've been thinking about is some people start talking about the difference between the shareholder economy of the past and the stakeholder economy of the future.
'''[00:30:50] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:30:50">Yeah, so just to sort of show the other side of the coin, so men</span><span title="00:30:54">volunteer less if they're unemployed thanemployed, even though that doesn't make</span><span title="00:30:57">any sense in terms of their free time.</span><span title="00:30:59">Uh, women show higher rates ofvolunteerism and going back to school when</span><span title="00:31:04">they have, um, more, more time.</span><span title="00:31:07">Um, so it's just that the numbers showclear patterns of, like, different</span><span title="00:31:10">responses to, um, non-workrelated time or or idleness.</span><span title="00:31:18">Um, but I, I'm with you on the factthat right now trying to map everyone's</span><span title="00:31:22">economic prospects to the, the market, themarket's valuation of our wages, uh, has</span><span title="00:31:30">all sorts of, um, distorting effects, and,uh, tend to, what you're suggesting that</span><span title="00:31:36">we should just start putting money intopeople's hands at various points in their</span><span title="00:31:39">lives.</span><span title="00:31:40">I mean, that's really one of theunderpinnings of the freedom dividend.</span><span title="00:31:44">You know, my universal basic income-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:20:35] Yup
'''[00:31:45] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:31:45">I see that that's a part of it.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:20:36] Um, there are other issues about the dignity of work and, um, what happens when machines replace you? You can't necessarily defend yourself economically, but you still have a reason to get up in the morning and do something.  
'''[00:31:46] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:31:46">Yeah. </span><span title="00:31:46">It's like you put 1000 bucks a month intopeople's hands and then, um, that would</span><span title="00:31:51">allow us all to make different types ofdecisions, uh, really from almost day one</span><span title="00:31:56">of our adulthood.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:20:50] Oh we hope you have a reason that you get up and do something.
'''[00:32:02] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:32:02">Let's try a few other things that I think might be interesting.</span><span title="00:32:04">One thing that, uh, wins presidentialcampaigns that we don't talk much about is</span><span title="00:32:09">demographers.</span><span title="00:32:10">Demographers are sometimes asked, Tell mesome group of people that we don't know</span><span title="00:32:16">about as a voting block thatnobody's figured out how to speak to.</span><span title="00:32:21">And I think I have a couple of these thatare candidates and I'd like to bounce them</span><span title="00:32:24">off-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:20:52] Amen. Now, the thing is, uh, we've been thinking about this paradigm from object oriented programming, which is the difference between is-a versus has-a. So, if a Lamborghini can play a, an FM broadcast, uh, through its speaker, you could technically find out that by some definition, the Lamborghini is a radio. But that seems absurd.
'''[00:32:24] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:32:24">Oh please, yeah, I'd like this, maybe I'll find a new audience to-</span>


[00:21:18] It's much more sane to say that it has a radio. Just the way it has a transmission. We make this error, I think when we talk about workers. We say that person is a worker, they are a brick layer or, or a teamster, you know?
'''[00:32:27] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:32:27">Well then, okay. </span><span title="00:32:28">So the first one that I have, you know, sothese are things like soccer moms was one</span><span title="00:32:33">from years past, or exurbs between ruraland suburbs where people didn't realize</span><span title="00:32:39">that there were intermediate places.</span><span title="00:32:41">So here's one that I think ishuge that hasn't been identified.</span><span title="00:32:44">Parents of super smart kids that have somekind of a learning difference that causes</span><span title="00:32:50">them to wildly underperform in school.</span><span title="00:32:54">This is something that makes mecrazy because I think it's all over.</span><span title="00:32:57">Once you start seeing it,you see it everywhere.</span><span title="00:33:00">Parents are tearing their hair out-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:21:34] Completely.  
'''[00:33:02] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:33:02">Yup. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:21:35] And that what we need to do is to readjust our model of an economic agent to a has-a model. And so the idea is that you may have a breadwinner, and you also have a contributor, and you also have a consumer, and therefore what it is that we do all day long in the face of the, of the automation that may or may not get here in dribs and drabs or come as a wave, we don't know, that we need to have a model of humans that recognizes a need to be active in the economy whether or not the marginal product of our labor is sufficient to take care of our family.
'''[00:33:02] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:33:02">Teachers can't handle the kids-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:22:13] I love it so much and I couldn't agree more.  
'''[00:33:04] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:33:04">Nope. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:22:15] Okay. So that's, that would be the kind of a research program that we would love to try to see undergirding a new economy that recognizes a much richer concept, uh, of an agent, um, but without it, I'm worried that, that, you know, the, the sort of, the power of that Chicago-style thinking pushes us back into humans as widgets.  
'''[00:33:04] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:33:04">And there's just this maddening loss of human brilliance that is</span><span title="00:33:09">flushed down the toilet.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:22:37] Well, humans is, widgets is predominant, uh, and you can see it at every turn, where even if you ask a kid, what do you want to be when you grow up? It's, you know, they'll say, I want to be a fireman, astronaut, baker, a scientist, whatever it happens to be.
'''[00:33:11] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:33:11">Have you come up with a name for this group?</span>


[00:22:52] And by the numbers, we are more work obsessed now than we perhaps have ever been, um, and trying to break up our identities-
'''[00:33:13] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:33:13">Um, well, um, I often refer to these as kids with learning</span><span title="00:33:18">superpowers, and I talk about teachingdisabilities, which is the more dangerous</span><span title="00:33:24">version of this, that because peopledon't fit into the notion of what can be</span><span title="00:33:28">educated by one teacher teaching a room ofthirty people to make the economics work,</span><span title="00:33:33">um, my belief is that, and I'll come upwith a name for it for you, but I want to</span><span title="00:33:39">talk to all of the parents who are leadinglives of despair, saying, why is my kid</span><span title="00:33:44">wildly underperforming and Iknow how smart this kid is?</span><span title="00:33:47">Why are we doing this to ourselvesand why will no one speak to it?</span><span title="00:33:51">This is, by the way, this is me andit's been in my family for four or five</span><span title="00:33:55">generations.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:23:02] Sure.
'''[00:33:55] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:33:55">It's me too </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:23:02] Into several aspects where you take a trucker who's on the road away from his family four days a week and say, you know, your a dad, you're like a consumer of, of hunting gear or you know, like you, um, there's more to you than being a trucker when they have shaped their life-
'''[00:33:55] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:33:55">Really? </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:23:26] Right.  
'''[00:33:56] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:33:56">Well, yeah. </span><span title="00:33:57">I'm very public about the factthat, um, my older son is autistic-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:23:26] Around being a trucker. Because you know, it's literally, you're behind the wheel for fourteen hours a day. You get out, you sleep at a rest stop. I mean, these are all consuming types of existences that are filled by hundreds of thousands of american men, and you know, 94% of them are men. So, you know, it's not like, Oh, he just thinks they're all men, it's like, come on. 94% of them are. Uh, and so if you were to go to that person and then try and have them adopt a more holistic identity when they have essentially shaped their entire existence around, uh, their role in this real life, uh, like almost circulatory system, where it's like they're piloting this blood vessel that has a bunch of, um, Home Depot crap in the back or whatever the heck they're transporting on like a daily basis.
'''[00:34:01] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:34:01">I know that. </span>


[00:24:19] Um, having them have other aspects of their identity that they value to a point where you could remove the work component and they would, you know, be cool with going home, and, um, spending time with their, their families, um, is pretty much the opposite of the way our civilization functions right now.
'''[00:34:01] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:34:01">And that when, um, we put him in various environments, I mean, there</span><span title="00:34:07">were very, very sharp struggles.</span><span title="00:34:09">Uh, and to me, atypical is the newnormal, like neurologically atypical.</span><span title="00:34:14">And you're right that as soon as youstart seeing it, you see it everywhere.</span><span title="00:34:19">And that the facts show thatit's incredibly commonplace.</span><span title="00:34:25">And at this point, I think most American,um, families have someone other in the</span><span title="00:34:30">family or someone in their social circlesthat resembles the description, um, that</span><span title="00:34:35">you just put out there of this group.</span><span title="00:34:38">To me, a lot of it is thatour institutions just aren't,</span><span title="00:34:43">aren't well designed for people withdifferent learning profiles or different</span><span title="00:34:47">approaches to the world-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:24:42] Well we saw these deaths of despair, uh, discussed by economists in, in the, you know, the heartland of America, we saw this demographic, um, crisis that happened when the Soviet Union fell apart with, um, you know, the mortality crisis. Uh, all sorts of people were dying of alcoholism, heart attacks and stress. So this is a really serious thing we have to figure out about the restoration of human meaning and dignity as different from employment.  
'''[00:34:47] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:34:47">And yet these are very often the people who are going to found</span><span title="00:34:50">new fields, who are going to find newdrugs for us, who are going to think in</span><span title="00:34:53">such different a- uncorrelated fashions,that these are very often the people that</span><span title="00:35:01">I value the most, and, you never knowwhether the thing's going to work out</span><span title="00:35:07">because the kid every, every yearis sustaining more and more trauma.</span><span title="00:35:12">Whereas these other kids, it's like,you know, I remember looking at the</span><span title="00:35:15">neurotypicals is as if, if I was likeCinderella, watching all the other sisters</span><span title="00:35:21">go to the ball and I wassitting there scrubbing dishes.</span><span title="00:35:23">Like what?</span><span title="00:35:24">You know, every conferencewas, Eric is underperforming.</span><span title="00:35:27">Eric can't meet his potential.</span><span title="00:35:28">Eric [inaudible].</span><span title="00:35:29">You know, at some point it's just like youdon't realize how much damage you're doing</span><span title="00:35:33">to maybe as much as afifth of the country.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:25:13] You had something like a dozen disenfranchised taxi cab drivers and limo drivers kill themselves, uh, you know, last year, like one of whom killed himself in front of city hall. I mean, like did his self-destruction caused meaningful ripples in our society?
'''[00:35:36] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:35:36">Well, someone described it as a, like you're getting regular, low grade</span><span title="00:35:40">psychic beating.</span>


[00:25:29] No. Most people watching this and listening to this right now. It's like, Oh, that shit happened? Like, you know, like, but there's this sort of self destruction is happening all the time, and most of them are just men quietly drinking themselves to death in their homes and then you know, they're dead. Uh, but-
'''[00:35:42] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:35:42">It's pretty good. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:25:46] Well, I love the idea that you're talking about compassion for men because one of the things that I'm finding is that it's very tough to talk in a, in a, in a world that is currently exploring this idea of toxic masculinity from some place that it might've been reasonably defined in blowing it up past, uh, past that point.
'''[00:35:44] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:35:44">And, and that's something that you obviously wouldn't wish upon</span><span title="00:35:47">anyone, much less little kids.</span>


[00:26:05] It's a very dangerous thing to see a world that sort of thinks that, you know, all straight, white guys are okay when in fact, many of them are very vulnerable and, and-  
'''[00:35:50] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:35:50">Yeah, and by the way, the, the autism thing, you know, I don't know</span><span title="00:35:54">whether your child is high functioning or,or not, but it's certainly the case that a</span><span title="00:36:00">lot of us have the idea that we almostdon't want to deal with people who aren't</span><span title="00:36:03">in some sense on the spectrum or havingsome kind of ability to focus and to, um,</span><span title="00:36:09">work with abstractions.</span><span title="00:36:11">Very often I think of, you know, I, I'm ontop of this, I'm colorblind and I always</span><span title="00:36:16">make the point that Isee camouflage better-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:26:16] By the numbers,
'''[00:36:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:36:19">Did you know that you're wearing bright purple right now?</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:26:17] By the numbers. Right.  
'''[00:36:22] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:36:22">Stop it. </span><span title="00:36:23">That used to happen.</span><span title="00:36:24">I used to dress myself before I let mygirlfriend, now wife make these decisions.</span><span title="00:36:30">I would make terrible decisions.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:26:18] You know, and yeah. It's so, uh, the, and this is one of the themes that when you talk about trying to define people, um, by different aspects of their life that might have work as one of them, but like others, the fact is, I think men struggle more with breaking up our identities, um, then women do. Because if you were to say to a woman, uh, Hey, you're a parent, you're, you know, a sister, you're, um, a nurse, you're like, all of these things, I think they would be more ready to embrace some of the non-work aspects of their identity, in part because of the cultural load that is placed on different types of people in our society.
'''[00:36:31] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:36:31">I'm just kidding, you look great.</span><span title="00:36:33">Yeah he looks great, I'm sureI have something to do with it.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:27:01] Yeah but I think they're facing a big one coming up, which is that you're going to have a huge cohort of millennial females who pretty much would, would love to be in a situation with meaningful work, but also with a family raising children of their own. And there's, first of all, isn't necessarily a supply of guys who can rise to the, I mean, you know, it doesn't have to be traditional households, but a lot of it is going to be male, female breadwinner, somebody stays at home, it might be the woman who's in the workforce, might be the guy staying home, whatever. The fact is a lot of these families aren't going to form because we're not in a position to say, I can afford a thirty year mortgage. I can see enough stability in my future, I can-
'''[00:36:35] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:36:35">Um, so that, that, that would be one group.</span><span title="00:36:38">Here's another one that Ithink is really important.</span><span title="00:36:40">Now, I know that you are the child ofimmigrants and that, you know, I'm of</span><span title="00:36:45">course married to an immigrant.</span><span title="00:36:47">Um, the temptation is for us to sort of bevery defensive of our immigrants because</span><span title="00:36:53">we have some forces at the moment thathave become very jingoistic, and I think</span><span title="00:36:59">that that's right.</span><span title="00:36:59">But I also think that we have to recognizethat there is a story about immigration</span><span title="00:37:04">that's very unpleasant and ugly, whichis how Americans have used immigration to</span><span title="00:37:11">redistribute wealth amongst ourselves,and effectively the immigrant is used as a</span><span title="00:37:17">tool of re redistribution, then people getangry or protective of the tool, and one</span><span title="00:37:23">of the things that I think, that's veryimportant, is, is that a huge chunk of</span><span title="00:37:28">America is highly xenophilic.</span><span title="00:37:31">They like foreigners, theylike traveling abroad.</span><span title="00:37:33">They like food, music.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:27:45] Yeah, and that's part of the thing is that these challenges face us all in different ways, and it's really, to me, counterproductive to disastrous, to single out a particular subset ups and be like, Hey, you've got it wrong.
'''[00:37:35] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:37:35">You probably read, uh, Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt.</span><span title="00:37:38">You're probably friends with John, right?</span>


[00:27:58] You're okay. You know, that's a legitimate, uh, you know, like thing to be upset about that is not, I mean, like if, if someone, um, is struggling, like it ends up reaching, uh, different groups in different ways.
'''[00:37:39] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:37:39">Yeah. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:28:14] Right.
'''[00:37:40] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:37:40">Yeah. </span><span title="00:37:40">I figured.</span><span title="00:37:41">Okay, continue, cause thisis what it reminds me of.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:28:15] And you can't say it's like, Oh, your struggles are somehow more, um, valid than others. So just to, to, to wrap around this thought, so I think that the division of our identities into like work and non-work-
'''[00:37:42] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:37:42">Okay. </span><span title="00:37:44">The thing is, is that xenophilicrestrictionists are a good chunk of this</span><span title="00:37:48">country.</span><span title="00:37:49">If you do a poll, and you allow forall four boxes xenophilic, xenophobic,</span><span title="00:37:53">restrictionist, expansionist, xenophilicrestrictionism is a giant cohort.</span><span title="00:37:59">Nobody speaks to it because if you sayanything about restrictionism, the media</span><span title="00:38:04">will instantaneouslylabel you a xenophobe.</span><span title="00:38:08">Can we at least distinguish the idea ofthe immigrants as souls, like ourselves,</span><span title="00:38:15">who have been an important part of ournational tapestry, together with the fact</span><span title="00:38:21">that very often they are used asinstruments of transfers of wealth?</span><span title="00:38:27">And-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:28:30] Right.
'''[00:38:27] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:38:27">I agree- </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:28:30] Uh, it's one of the greatest things we have to overcome. And by the numbers, if you lose your job and you're a man, um, you tend to have relatively, uh, self-destructive patterns of behavior manifest, um, relatively consistently and quickly, where unemployed men volunteer less than employed men despite having much more free time, as an example. Uh, substance abuse tends to go up, uh, in very self destructive behaviors. A lot of time spent on the computer goes up, which, so that's a combination of, um, gaming and some other things, uh, and-
'''[00:38:27] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:38:27">And that we should be angry at our fellow Americans who</span><span title="00:38:30">cynically use immigration and hide behindthe immigrant to take money from one</span><span title="00:38:35">sector and put it into their own pockets.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:29:14] Porn.  
'''[00:38:37] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:38:37">Or you should not be angry at someone who's angry about the, uh,</span><span title="00:38:41">immigrants.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:29:14] And porn, I'm sure is, you know, I didn't, I mean, I kind of implied it and, but I was thinking it-
'''[00:38:42] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:38:42">Well this is the thing- </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:29:20] No no no, look, this, this is a free radio station, effectively, and we're going to be able to say that that's one of the things that may be deranging us. We don't know what its effects are.  
'''[00:38:43] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:38:43">Because, because there is something, like you said, it's like, you</span><span title="00:38:46">know, in some ways someone can have a verylegitimate grievance about the fact that</span><span title="00:38:49">there have been these, uh, instruments of,of wealth transfer that have been imported</span><span title="00:38:56">into our midst.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:29:29] Yeah, no, so, uh, and that women have struggles obviously, but the struggles take a different form in terms of, and the numbers show that women are more adaptable to non-work idleness in that they will not share the same patterns of self-destructive behavior that men do. Now, of course, women obviously, you know, hate to be unemployed, but the, that, the thing that I joke about that's sort of true is that women however, are never truly idle in the sense that they always find like, um, like, like ways to be, um, productive contributors in a way that men struggle with, in many respects.
'''[00:38:57] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:38:57">So I call these the Americans who redistribute our wealth, uh,</span><span title="00:39:00">immigrant entrepreneurs, right?</span><span title="00:39:02">And the ideas that, if they could usepuppy dogs to redistribute our wealth,</span><span title="00:39:07">they'd use puppy dogs becausenobody can be against puppies.</span><span title="00:39:09">Right?</span><span title="00:39:10">And so it's a very cynicaluse of the Statue of Liberty.</span><span title="00:39:13">Something that's verydifficult to talk about.</span><span title="00:39:16">But it's something that I've been talkingabout for a while because I think that</span><span title="00:39:19">I'm, I'm so far in the xenophiliccategory, it would be comical if somebody</span><span title="00:39:24">decided I actually had a problem.</span><span title="00:39:25">So I, I've been bold and I haven't reallyhad the problem, but most Americans feel</span><span title="00:39:30">very uncomfortable talking aboutimmigration because they have two</span><span title="00:39:33">different feelings.</span><span title="00:39:34">They one, have a really good feeling aboutthe person that they know who happened to</span><span title="00:39:37">come from Uganda or India, and they havethe sense that something is wrong with the</span><span title="00:39:41">story.</span><span title="00:39:42">We're going to have to disentangle it andrestore something that makes us feel good</span><span title="00:39:46">about it rather than uncomfortable.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:30:07] So kin work for example, where you're working for your family, taking care of elderly parents, your kids, somebody else's kids, these things are part of the fabric of civil society. One of the questions I have is, should we talk about coming up with some new financial products that get women the money they need during the period of their life when they might need extra help in the house? When they, when the binds that come from caring for elderly parents or children are starting to knock them out of the workforce and trying to figure out how to make some kind of creative structure to help, um, shift the burdens to times of their life when they can better afford it. What do you think about that?
'''[00:39:48] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:39:48">I agree. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:30:50] Yeah, so just to sort of show the other side of the coin, so men volunteer less if they're unemployed than employed, even though that doesn't make any sense in terms of their free time. Uh, women show higher rates of volunteerism and going back to school when they have, um, more, more time.
'''[00:39:49] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:39:49">Great. </span>


[00:31:07] Um, so it's just that the numbers show clear patterns of, like, different responses to, um, non-work related time or or idleness. Um, but I, I'm with you on the fact that right now trying to map everyone's economic prospects to the, the market, the market's valuation of our wages, uh, has all sorts of, um, distorting effects, and, uh, tend to, what you're suggesting that we should just start putting money into people's hands at various points in their lives. I mean, that's really one of the underpinnings of the freedom dividend. You know, my universal basic income-
'''[00:39:50] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:39:50">And, uh, you know, I think, um, I may be able to help in this regard.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:31:45] I see that that's a part of it.  
'''[00:39:55] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:39:55">I think you're perfectly positioned for this.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:31:46] Yeah. It's like you put 1000 bucks a month into people's hands and then, um, that would allow us all to make different types of decisions, uh, really from almost day one of our adulthood.
'''[00:39:57] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:39:57">You know, part, I'm the son of immigrants who loves, uh, this country.</span><span title="00:40:02">He loves that immigrants have been anincredible source of dynamism, but, uh,</span><span title="00:40:08">you know, you can't have openborders and unrestricted immigration.</span><span title="00:40:13">I understand the sentiment where peopleare struggling with, um, the fact that our</span><span title="00:40:19">country has brought many people in eitherintentionally or unintentionally, uh, in</span><span title="00:40:24">ways that are changing, uh, our economyand society in ways that in like, some</span><span title="00:40:32">people have legitimate, um, problems with.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:32:02] Let's try a few other things that I think might be interesting. One thing that, uh, wins presidential campaigns that we don't talk much about is demographers. Demographers are sometimes asked, Tell me some group of people that we don't know about as a voting block that nobody's figured out how to speak to.
'''[00:40:37] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:40:37">Yeah. </span><span title="00:40:37">I just think, I think we need to beable to have an open conversation about</span><span title="00:40:40">difficult topics aroundthis and pull them apart.</span><span title="00:40:43">And the fact is we need, we need peopleto feel comfortable that it's okay to feel</span><span title="00:40:49">uncomfortable as long as you're trying toexplore it with-- The current president,</span><span title="00:40:53">for my money, gets way tooclose to jingoistic sentiment.</span>


[00:32:21] And I think I have a couple of these that are candidates and I'd like to bounce them off-
'''[00:40:57] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:40:57">And that's one of the natural reactions is that if the current president</span><span title="00:41:01">says one thing, then, you know, the rightthing to do is say the exact opposite.</span><span title="00:41:05">But then the nuance gets lost and thenunfortunately we end up falling into,</span><span title="00:41:10">these polarized camps</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:32:24] Oh please, yeah, I'd like this, maybe I'll find a new audience to-
'''[00:41:11] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:41:11">That's why I feel like, we have, it's so important not only to defeat</span><span title="00:41:14">the current president, but also to defeatthe kleptocratic center of, uh, of our own</span><span title="00:41:20">party as well as the regressive left thatproposes as the progressive left, and then</span><span title="00:41:27">to take care of the constituents that arecurrently all over the spectrum in a new</span><span title="00:41:33">world, and this is one of the things Ilove about your slogan, which is not left</span><span title="00:41:37">or right, but forward, right?</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:32:27] Well then, okay. So the first one that I have, you know, so these are things like soccer moms was one from years past, or exurbs between rural and suburbs where people didn't realize that there were intermediate places.
'''[00:41:38] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:41:38">Yes. </span><span title="00:41:39">That's the slogan.</span>


[00:32:41] So here's one that I think is huge that hasn't been identified. Parents of super smart kids that have some kind of a learning difference that causes them to wildly underperform in school. This is something that makes me crazy because I think it's all over. Once you start seeing it, you see it everywhere. Parents are tearing their hair out-
'''[00:41:40] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:41:40">Yeah. </span><span title="00:41:40">And that that thing is, is thatit's moot, it's a question of-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:33:02] Yup.
'''[00:41:43] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:41:43">It also happens to be the truth.</span><span title="00:41:44">It's not just like-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:33:02] Teachers can't handle the kids-
'''[00:41:44] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:41:44">I know, that that's the thing.</span><span title="00:41:46">It's moving out of Flatland, like we'vebeen, we've been given this smorgasbord of</span><span title="00:41:51">bad options and just say, Hey, Idon't think I want to dine from there.</span><span title="00:41:54">I think these thingsare available off menu.</span><span title="00:41:56">Do you mind if I, if I, you know, like forexample, Starbucks I think will sell you a</span><span title="00:42:01">short cup of coffee, but theywon't put it on the menu.</span><span title="00:42:03">You have to know that to ask for it.</span><span title="00:42:05">So I like to think of you as the guy whosomehow knows that there are things that</span><span title="00:42:08">aren't on the menu.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:33:04] Nope.  
'''[00:42:09] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:42:09">I am animal style at In-N-Out.</span><span title="00:42:12">I am, Andrew Yang is animal style.</span><span title="00:42:15">Uh-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:33:04] And there's just this maddening loss of human brilliance that is flushed down the toilet.
'''[00:42:16] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:42:16">Let me give you- </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:33:11] Have you come up with a name for this group?
'''[00:42:17] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:42:17">I agree that I can change the political conversation, uh, in a way that</span><span title="00:42:22">many Americans find veryexciting and productive.</span><span title="00:42:25">Uh, because 25% of Americans arepolitically disengaged, including, I'm</span><span title="00:42:29">sure, some people watching this, um, andI believe it's up to 48% self-identify as</span><span title="00:42:34">independent, which is almost twicewhat identify as either Democratic or</span><span title="00:42:37">Republican-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:33:13] Um, well, um, I often refer to these as kids with learning superpowers, and I talk about teaching disabilities, which is the more dangerous version of this, that because people don't fit into the notion of what can be educated by one teacher teaching a room of thirty people to make the economics work, um, my belief is that, and I'll come up with a name for it for you, but I want to talk to all of the parents who are leading lives of despair, saying, why is my kid wildly underperforming and I know how smart this kid is? Why are we doing this to ourselves and why will no one speak to it? This is, by the way, this is me and it's been in my family for four or five generations.
'''[00:42:37] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:42:37">I'm so close to identifying as independent.</span><span title="00:42:40">I, I can't stand my own party, but myfeeling is I have to stay there and say,</span><span title="00:42:44">Hey, we're out of control, in orderto save the structure, because I, I-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:33:55] It's me too
'''[00:42:50] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:42:50">Well, the two party system, I mean, I agree.</span><span title="00:42:52">That's why I'm why I'mrunning as a Democrat.</span><span title="00:42:54">In part it's like, well,you have these two parties.</span><span title="00:42:56">Maybe you can turn one of them into like ahighly functioning party with great ideas</span><span title="00:43:01">and the rest of it, I mean, that'slike an easier solution than-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:33:55] Really?
'''[00:43:04] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:43:04">Look Andrew, what I really want to do is I want to ret- I want the</span><span title="00:43:07">insurgency that you and I have been sortof a part of, this loose collection of</span><span title="00:43:12">people who are thinking completely off themenu, to start retaking our institutions.</span><span title="00:43:19">We always had heterodox people of highcaliber who are, you know, effectively</span><span title="00:43:25">heretics housed inside the Harvards andMITs and Caltechs, and I think we've</span><span title="00:43:32">gotten rid of that kind of-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:33:56] Well, yeah. I'm very public about the fact that, um, my older son is autistic-  
'''[00:43:35] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:43:35">Or they are there. </span><span title="00:43:36">Then they're scared shitless to, like,say the wrong thing or else they'll get-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:34:01] I know that.
'''[00:43:39] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:43:39">Well, do you remember the time, you remember that situation where</span><span title="00:43:42">MIT turned over Aaron Schwartz?</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:34:01] And that when, um, we put him in various environments, I mean, there were very, very sharp struggles. Uh, and to me, atypical is the new normal, like neurologically atypical. And you're right that as soon as you start seeing it, you see it everywhere.
'''[00:43:44] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:43:44">I shouldn't laugh, cause, I mean, it's dark.</span>


[00:34:19] And that the facts show that it's incredibly commonplace. And at this point, I think most American, um, families have someone other in the family or someone in their social circles that resembles the description, um, that you just put out there of this group. To me, a lot of it is that our institutions just aren't, aren't well designed for people with different learning profiles or different approaches to the world-
'''[00:43:46] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:43:46">But we should laugh. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:34:47] And yet these are very often the people who are going to found new fields, who are going to find new drugs for us, who are going to think in such different a- uncorrelated fashions, that these are very often the people that I value the most, and, you never know whether the thing's going to work out because the kid every, every year is sustaining more and more trauma. Whereas these other kids, it's like, you know, I remember looking at the neurotypicals is as if, if I was like Cinderella, watching all the other sisters go to the ball and I was sitting there scrubbing dishes.
'''[00:43:47] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:43:47">No, no, I mean- </span>


[00:35:23] Like what? You know, every conference was, Eric is underperforming. Eric can't meet his potential. Eric [inaudible]. You know, at some point it's just like you don't realize how much damage you're doing to maybe as much as a fifth of the country.  
'''[00:43:48] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:43:48">I, I'm, I'm for laughing at the dark.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:35:36] Well, someone described it as a, like you're getting regular, low grade psychic beating.
'''[00:43:50] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:43:50">Yeah, I laugh at the dark, it's, you know-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:35:42] It's pretty good.  
'''[00:43:53] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:43:53">It's like everybody knows that, but you're not allowed to do it in</span><span title="00:43:55">public.</span><span title="00:43:55">So screw that.</span><span title="00:43:57">You know, we had this situationwith this guy, Aaron Schwartz-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:35:44] And, and that's something that you obviously wouldn't wish upon anyone, much less little kids.
'''[00:43:59] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:43:59">Did you know Aaron? </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:35:50] Yeah, and by the way, the, the autism thing, you know, I don't know whether your child is high functioning or, or not, but it's certainly the case that a lot of us have the idea that we almost don't want to deal with people who aren't in some sense on the spectrum or having some kind of ability to focus and to, um, work with abstractions.
'''[00:44:00] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:44:00">No. </span><span title="00:44:00">Did you?</span>


[00:36:11] Very often I think of, you know, I, I'm on top of this, I'm colorblind and I always make the point that I see camouflage better-
'''[00:44:01] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:44:01">I've, you know, he's a friend of friends.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:36:19] Did you know that you're wearing bright purple right now?
'''[00:44:03] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:44:03">Yeah. </span><span title="00:44:03">You know, and this guy almost certainlywas a pretty pure hearted human being who</span><span title="00:44:10">was fighting the good fight.</span><span title="00:44:11">MIT is supposed to shelter those people,and instead they cooperate, you know, in</span><span title="00:44:17">turning them over.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:36:22] Stop it. That used to happen. I used to dress myself before I let my girlfriend, now wife make these decisions. I would make terrible decisions.
'''[00:44:17] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:44:17">As soon as you get the institutional incentives in a particular</span><span title="00:44:19">direction, and like, I mean, this isnot near, and this is just like recent,</span><span title="00:44:24">because in recent memory, but you know, Istuck up for Shane Gillis, this comedian</span><span title="00:44:28">that, um, had said-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:36:31] I'm just kidding, you look great. Yeah he looks great, I'm sure I have something to do with it.
'''[00:44:30] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:44:30">I saw that, and the the idea that, you know, you were in a</span><span title="00:44:32">position to say, look,I'm the candidate, uh-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:36:35] Um, so that, that, that would be one group. Here's another one that I think is really important. Now, I know that you are the child of immigrants and that, you know, I'm of course married to an immigrant. Um, the temptation is for us to sort of be very defensive of our immigrants because we have some forces at the moment that have become very jingoistic, and I think that that's right. But I also think that we have to recognize that there is a story about immigration that's very unpleasant and ugly, which is how Americans have used immigration to redistribute wealth amongst ourselves, and effectively the immigrant is used as a tool of re redistribution, then people get angry or protective of the tool, and one of the things that I think, that's very important, is, is that a huge chunk of America is highly xenophilic. They like foreigners, they like traveling abroad. They like food, music.
'''[00:44:36] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:44:36">He personally actually, yeah, and so if anyone should be offended, it's</span><span title="00:44:39">me.</span><span title="00:44:39">And so I think he shouldn'tlose his job over it, well-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:37:35] You probably read, uh, Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. You're probably friends with John, right?
'''[00:44:42] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:44:42">Well, this is the thing, the quality of mercy, or forgiveness or,</span><span title="00:44:47">um, just recognition, uh, that thereshould be space for remorse and</span><span title="00:44:53">redemption, this is what makes so much ofthe intolerant left, feel cult-like, and I</span><span title="00:45:00">thought what you were doing was youwere showing the best aspects of a truly</span><span title="00:45:04">compassionate left.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:37:39] Yeah.  
'''[00:45:05] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:45:05">I was trying to be a human being.</span><span title="00:45:07">You know, like you looked at it andbeing like, well, like is that a job?</span><span title="00:45:11">Losing a fence?</span><span title="00:45:12">But then the fact that NBC ended up firinghim was entirely consistent with our</span><span title="00:45:19">corporate incentives, because if you lookat it and say like, well, is this person</span><span title="00:45:22">that we've invested a lot in that'ssome, a revenue generator for us?</span><span title="00:45:25">No, because he hadn'teven worked for one day.</span><span title="00:45:28">It's like our corporate incentives to canhim and thoughts like, you know, put an</span><span title="00:45:32">end to any controversy or advertiser orwhatnot, that would be troubled by it.</span><span title="00:45:38">Yeah.</span><span title="00:45:38">So it's like, so if you'd asked me, it'slike, Hey, do you think he's going to be</span><span title="00:45:40">fired, I'd be like, Yeah, he's almostcertainly going to be fired because that's</span><span title="00:45:43">what the corporate incentives [inaudible].</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:37:40] Yeah. I figured. Okay, continue, cause this is what it reminds me of.
'''[00:45:44] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:45:44">Well I understand that, so one of the things that I'm really</span><span title="00:45:46">interested in doing-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:37:42] Okay. The thing is, is that xenophilic restrictionists are a good chunk of this country. If you do a poll, and you allow for all four boxes xenophilic, xenophobic, restrictionist, expansionist, xenophilic restrictionism is a giant cohort.
'''[00:45:47] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:45:47">But it, it still made me sad. </span><span title="00:45:48">Like I was like, Hey, this would beunusually, uh, human and forgiving if they</span><span title="00:45:54">decided to-</span>


[00:37:59] Nobody speaks to it because if you say anything about restrictionism, the media will instantaneously label you a xenophobe. Can we at least distinguish the idea of the immigrants as souls, like ourselves, who have been an important part of our national tapestry, together with the fact that very often they are used as instruments of transfers of wealth? And-
'''[00:45:55] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:45:55">Well, they lost a teachable moment because one of the things</span><span title="00:45:58">that's going on is that so much of theinformation economy is very, very marginal</span><span title="00:46:04">in the sense that you'realmost producing a public good.</span><span title="00:46:06">So for example, I slapads on my podcasts, um-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:38:27] I agree-
'''[00:46:10] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:46:10">Buy stuff from his sponsors, no I'm kidding.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:38:27] And that we should be angry at our fellow Americans who cynically use immigration and hide behind the immigrant to take money from one sector and put it into their own pockets.
'''[00:46:12] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:46:12">What I'm trying, well, what I'm trying to do is I've tried two</span><span title="00:46:14">new models, one of which I'm callingreverse sponsorship, where I shout out</span><span title="00:46:19">some great company, uh, which doesn't knowthat I'm going to say something positive</span><span title="00:46:23">and maybe they become sponsors, maybethey don't, but the other one is</span><span title="00:46:26">risk-vertisers, where people get to knowme over long periods of time, and the hope</span><span title="00:46:30">is that you're going to say, look, you'renot going to catch me being horrible and</span><span title="00:46:35">bigoted and all of these things, butI might say something dangerous, like</span><span title="00:46:38">something that I just said aboutimmigration, and will you make sure that</span><span title="00:46:42">you will not run away from me during theperiod where the mob descends and the</span><span title="00:46:47">frenzy is at its worst?</span><span title="00:46:49">Right?</span><span title="00:46:49">Because if we don't fix the economicmodels, we can't have deeper discussions</span><span title="00:46:54">because everybody's going to runaway at the first sight of trouble.</span><span title="00:46:57">And so part of what we're trying todo ultimately with the advertising-</span>
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:38:37] Or you should not be angry at someone who's angry about the, uh, immigrants.  


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:38:42] Well this is the thing-
'''[00:47:00] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:47:00">Look at this, pirate radio, pre-advertising-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:38:43] Because, because there is something, like you said, it's like, you know, in some ways someone can have a very legitimate grievance about the fact that there have been these, uh, instruments of, of wealth transfer that have been imported into our midst.
'''[00:47:03] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:47:03">What do you think? </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:38:57] So I call these the Americans who redistribute our wealth, uh, immigrant entrepreneurs, right? And the ideas that, if they could use puppy dogs to redistribute our wealth, they'd use puppy dogs because nobody can be against puppies.
'''[00:47:04] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:47:04">I mean, I love it. </span><span title="00:47:04">It's like leave it to you to tryand solve that kind of problem.</span>


[00:39:09] Right? And so it's a very cynical use of the Statue of Liberty. Something that's very difficult to talk about. But it's something that I've been talking about for a while because I think that I'm, I'm so far in the xenophilic category, it would be comical if somebody decided I actually had a problem. So I, I've been bold and I haven't really had the problem, but most Americans feel very uncomfortable talking about immigration because they have two different feelings.
'''[00:47:08] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:47:08">Alright, I've got some other things that I want to talk about in</span><span title="00:47:10">demographics.</span>


[00:39:34] They one, have a really good feeling about the person that they know who happened to come from Uganda or India, and they have the sense that something is wrong with the story. We're going to have to disentangle it and restore something that makes us feel good about it rather than uncomfortable.  
'''[00:47:11] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:47:11">Oh yeah, please. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:39:48] I agree.
'''[00:47:12] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:47:12">Okay- </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:39:49] Great.  
'''[00:47:12] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:47:12">So, so, so let me first say, I am a parent of a neurologically atypical</span><span title="00:47:18">young person.</span><span title="00:47:20">Um, I agree with you that I think thatmany of the people who have a different</span><span title="00:47:23">perspective, are going to end up beingcontributors in highly distinctive ways.</span><span title="00:47:28">I will say that even kids who are notgoing to be contributors in highly</span><span title="00:47:32">distinctive ways still deserve schoolsthat can support and accommodate them.</span><span title="00:47:37">Um, and, that to me, these kids are like,the shorthand I use is that they're spiky.</span><span title="00:47:44">You know, it's like you have, um, veryhigh capacities in some respects or a</span><span title="00:47:49">different point of view, and thenreal challenges in other respects.</span><span title="00:47:52">And so if I send you into a socialenvironment where there are thirty kids</span><span title="00:47:57">for one teacher, you're going tohave a terrible, terrible time.</span><span title="00:48:01">And you know, and, andthat's 100% predictable.</span><span title="00:48:03">And so if then you have like a criticalmass of people that resemble this, uh,</span><span title="00:48:08">then you should try and design aninstitution that takes that into account.</span><span title="00:48:12">Um, and I feel so deeply for familiesthat struggle with this, like you struggle</span><span title="00:48:17">with, it sounds likeyou've experienced it.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:39:50] And, uh, you know, I think, um, I may be able to help in this regard.  
'''[00:48:19] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:48:19">Oh absolutely. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:39:55] I think you're perfectly positioned for this.  
'''[00:48:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:48:19">I have struggled with it. </span><span title="00:48:20">And you, and Pia, you know, and me andEvelyn, like we have an unusual level of</span><span title="00:48:25">ability to try and, you know, managesituation, um, and I meet single moms</span><span title="00:48:31">around the country who have, you know,autistic or, um, neurologically atypical</span><span title="00:48:36">kids that don't have the means and theylive in a part of the country that does</span><span title="00:48:40">not have like a lot of resources inplace for kids that are different.</span><span title="00:48:44">And, it breaks my heart.</span><span title="00:48:46">Like it, the fact that there are all ofthese kids that are heading into these</span><span title="00:48:50">schools that are getting, um, you know,more than low grade psychic beatings.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:39:57] You know, part, I'm the son of immigrants who loves, uh, this country. He loves that immigrants have been an incredible source of dynamism, but, uh, you know, you can't have open borders and unrestricted immigration.
'''[00:48:55] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:48:55">Oh my God, this is why I leave my, my DMs open on Twitter, and this</span><span title="00:48:59">is one of the number one things I do itfor, is people write to me and they say, I</span><span title="00:49:02">know you're really busy, but I just wantto tell you, nobody had ever spoken to my</span><span title="00:49:06">situation.</span><span title="00:49:07">You're proud of somethingI'm always ashamed of, and-</span>


[00:40:13] I understand the sentiment where people are struggling with, um, the fact that our country has brought many people in either intentionally or unintentionally, uh, in ways that are changing, uh, our economy and society in ways that in like, some people have legitimate, um, problems with.  
'''[00:49:10] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:49:10">I guarantee you I'm not the first presidential candidate with autism</span><span title="00:49:12">in the family.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:40:37] Yeah. I just think, I think we need to be able to have an open conversation about difficult topics around this and pull them apart.
'''[00:49:13] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:49:13">Yeah. </span>


[00:40:43] And the fact is we need, we need people to feel comfortable that it's okay to feel uncomfortable as long as you're trying to explore it with-- The current president, for my money, gets way too close to jingoistic sentiment.  
'''[00:49:13] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:49:13">And the fact that I'm on the first talking about it is, to me, long</span><span title="00:49:17">overdue and ridiculous.</span><span title="00:49:19">Uh, and-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:40:57] And that's one of the natural reactions is that if the current president says one thing, then, you know, the right thing to do is say the exact opposite.
'''[00:49:20] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:49:20">Amen. </span>


[00:41:05] But then the nuance gets lost and then unfortunately we end up falling into, these polarized camps
'''[00:49:20] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:49:20">And you know, and I get, I get some of the same messages that you</span><span title="00:49:23">get, but you know, like I want to actuallytry and solve the problem for those</span><span title="00:49:27">families.</span><span title="00:49:28">I mean, it makes me feel glad that theyfeel spoken to and that they realize</span><span title="00:49:31">they're not the onlyones going through it.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:41:11] That's why I feel like, we have, it's so important not only to defeat the current president, but also to defeat the kleptocratic center of, uh, of our own party as well as the regressive left that proposes as the progressive left, and then to take care of the constituents that are currently all over the spectrum in a new world, and this is one of the things I love about your slogan, which is not left or right, but forward, right?
'''[00:49:32] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:49:32">I want to see, I want to see more money going to figure out how do</span><span title="00:49:36">we diversify the classroom of the future-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:41:38] Yes. That's the slogan.  
'''[00:49:39] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:49:39">Yeah. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:41:40] Yeah. And that that thing is, is that it's moot, it's a question of-
'''[00:49:39] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:49:39">So that the load isn't born by people who don't fit the economics</span><span title="00:49:43">of the teaching model.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:41:43] It also happens to be the truth. It's not just like-  
'''[00:49:44] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:49:44">Yes. </span><span title="00:49:45">And part of it is that, um, that we regardthe education of our kids as a cost, and</span><span title="00:49:49">so then the city then is like, well, Ican't afford to have like a teacher for</span><span title="00:49:54">your, uh, neurologically atypical kid, um,and so what we have to do is, talk about</span><span title="00:49:59">inverting the model, is you have to lookat the education of our children as an</span><span title="00:50:04">investment.</span><span title="00:50:05">Uh, and then you say, what's that?</span><span title="00:50:07">Like, these kids require, you know, likeX and Y, and then we should make that</span><span title="00:50:12">investment with the certainty, and I shareyour confidence in this, that you have a</span><span title="00:50:17">couple of those kids do something highlyatypical and remarkable, then that pays</span><span title="00:50:23">for whatever, uh, support, or,teacher, or infrastructure-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:41:44] I know, that that's the thing. It's moving out of Flatland, like we've been, we've been given this smorgasbord of bad options and just say, Hey, I don't think I want to dine from there. I think these things are available off menu. Do you mind if I, if I, you know, like for example, Starbucks I think will sell you a short cup of coffee, but they won't put it on the menu.
'''[00:50:27] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:50:27">This is an underground movement.</span><span title="00:50:28">I mean, I just had a, a very well knownprofessor, uh, reveal to me that he</span><span title="00:50:35">couldn't read papers, in his field,I mean, he just can't read, you know?</span><span title="00:50:39">And he has to figure out whatthe paper is likely to be saying.</span><span title="00:50:43">There is such a weird world of,of, um, unexpected achievement.</span>


[00:42:03] You have to know that to ask for it. So I like to think of you as the guy who somehow knows that there are things that aren't on the menu.  
'''[00:50:50] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:50:50">And this is the demon, the demon that we have to, um, slay anyways is</span><span title="00:50:56">that, um, the negative externalities arenot being encompassed within the budgets</span><span title="00:51:01">of various institutions.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:42:09] I am animal style at In-N-Out. I am, Andrew Yang is animal style. Uh-
'''[00:51:03] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:51:03">Very well said. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:42:16] Let me give you-
'''[00:51:03] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:51:03">But, but then also where foregoing all of the potential positive</span><span title="00:51:08">value creation or generation from properinvestment in our human capital, um, and</span><span title="00:51:15">another dimension too, and this is neitherhere nor there, but I was just with Dean</span><span title="00:51:18">Kamen in New Hampshire and he wastalking about how the FDA, like all their</span><span title="00:51:23">incentives are just to likeregulate the shit out of anything.</span><span title="00:51:26">And then I said to him, I was like, youknow, what they should start measuring is</span><span title="00:51:29">the foregone utility of keeping somethingaway from, uh, from people, like if you</span><span title="00:51:34">had something and-</span>
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:42:17] I agree that I can change the political conversation, uh, in a way that many Americans find very exciting and productive.


[00:42:25] Uh, because 25% of Americans are politically disengaged, including, I'm sure, some people watching this, um, and I believe it's up to 48% self-identify as independent, which is almost twice what identify as either Democratic or Republican-
'''[00:51:35] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:51:35">What is the opportunity cost of the regulations?</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:42:37] I'm so close to identifying as independent. I, I can't stand my own party, but my feeling is I have to stay there and say, Hey, we're out of control, in order to save the structure, because I, I-
'''[00:51:37] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:51:37">Yeah. </span><span title="00:51:38">He had like, he had like this prostheticlimb that he was trying to give to vets,</span><span title="00:51:41">and the FDA was making it really hard forhim to do so, and he was like, are you</span><span title="00:51:44">kidding me?</span><span title="00:51:44">I'm trying to give limbs toVets who've been amputated.</span><span title="00:51:50">And so by your making it hard for me todo so, like you multiply like all of the</span><span title="00:51:55">limbless Vets who aren't getting a limb,like, you know, it's like, so if you had</span><span title="00:51:59">that as like an actual measurement forthe FDA, it's like you need to have these</span><span title="00:52:04">companies internalize the negativeexternalities of things like pollution and</span><span title="00:52:08">the rest of it, but you almost need likeour institutions, like our schools and our</span><span title="00:52:12">regulatory agencies to start trying tosomehow capture the potential gains from</span><span title="00:52:19">investing in our kids or allowing acertain innovation into the market.</span><span title="00:52:24">Like the, the, the big problems are thatour measurements are really primitive.</span><span title="00:52:28">Uh, and, um, it ends up, and you end upwith binary incentives where, uh, you lose</span><span title="00:52:36">a lot of the value, and so you end upbeing like, Hey, don't have a teacher for</span><span title="00:52:39">your kid, so your kid's gonna, you know,just end up, um, sidelined and sidelined</span><span title="00:52:46">is like a euphemisticway for saying destroyed.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:42:50] Well, the two party system, I mean, I agree. That's why I'm why I'm running as a Democrat. In part it's like, well, you have these two parties. Maybe you can turn one of them into like a highly functioning party with great ideas and the rest of it, I mean, that's like an easier solution than-
'''[00:52:49] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:52:49">I know. </span><span title="00:52:50">One of the things I wanted to do at somepoint, um, I actually ended up talking to</span><span title="00:52:54">the Heritage Foundation of all peopleabout this, was the idea of national</span><span title="00:52:59">interest waivers so that we could havea Skunkworks with very light regulation</span><span title="00:53:04">hanging off the sideof every large company.</span><span title="00:53:08">And the idea is that you would put someportion of a company, you could put some</span><span title="00:53:12">portion of the company outside where therules were effectively different because</span><span title="00:53:16">you needed people to take massive risks,to be able to move super fast, to be</span><span title="00:53:22">dealing with highly nonneurotypical people.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:43:04] Look Andrew, what I really want to do is I want to ret- I want the insurgency that you and I have been sort of a part of, this loose collection of people who are thinking completely off the menu, to start retaking our institutions. We always had heterodox people of high caliber who are, you know, effectively heretics housed inside the Harvards and MITs and Caltechs, and I think we've gotten rid of that kind of-  
'''[00:53:24] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:53:24">And this is one of the things that drives me nuts about the political</span><span title="00:53:27">conversation is like, you get like, theyget like yelled at for a particular, it's</span><span title="00:53:31">like, Oh, you made amistake, dah, dah, dah.</span><span title="00:53:32">It's like you kind of need to have anenvironment where you're going to accept a</span><span title="00:53:36">certain level of mistakes, particularlywhen you're talking about, um, large scale</span><span title="00:53:40">society-wide investments, where like, ofcourse, you can't get that stuff right.</span><span title="00:53:44">And, you know, it's like, and that, theproblem is that the political incentives</span><span title="00:53:48">are for everyone to try andavoid like a negative headline.</span><span title="00:53:51">Um, or something that, that's-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:43:35] Or they are there. Then they're scared shitless to, like, say the wrong thing or else they'll get-  
'''[00:53:53] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:53:53">Look, a lot of us are very disagreeable, very difficult to deal with.</span><span title="00:53:57">And, you know, I saw you pick up, uh,endorsements from people like Elon Musk,</span><span title="00:54:03">you know, which is, then I hear his, hispersonal life being criticized, I was</span><span title="00:54:08">like, I don't really care.</span><span title="00:54:10">This guy is responsible for how much-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:43:39] Well, do you remember the time, you remember that situation where MIT turned over Aaron Schwartz?
'''[00:54:12] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:54:12">Advancing the species. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:43:44] I shouldn't laugh, cause, I mean, it's dark.
'''[00:54:13] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:54:13">How much adva- right, how much innovation?</span><span title="00:54:16">If he's got a few foibles,let's give him some privacy.</span><span title="00:54:19">Let him be in peace and just recognizethat we're getting an unbelievable deal</span><span title="00:54:24">and yet this desire to somehow stamp outoutliers, I mean, outliers are essential</span><span title="00:54:31">to the American project.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:43:46] But we should laugh.  
'''[00:54:33] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:54:33">Yes, I could not agree more. </span><span title="00:54:35">And you know, I, I'd consider myself, it'spretty funny Eric, cause I, you know, um,</span><span title="00:54:41">I think I had, uh, in many ways, like ahighly conventional, uh, upbringing, um,</span><span title="00:54:49">that helped.</span><span title="00:54:50">Like, I feel like I'm sort of a hybridwhere, uh, to the extent that I was highly</span><span title="00:54:56">contrarian or dissimilar, you know, it'slike, I, you know, I've, I came up through</span><span title="00:55:02">a series of institutions in an era where,um, you know, I think I learned to adapt.</span><span title="00:55:09">Um, but then I look at my boys and I thinkto myself that, um, you know, that, that</span><span title="00:55:15">their way of life is going to bevery, very different than, than mine.</span><span title="00:55:18">I'm sure yours too, cause wecame of age in a different era.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:43:47] No, no, I mean-
'''[00:55:20] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:55:20">Well this is true. </span><span title="00:55:21">I mean I was just talking about thisactually breath, Bret Easton Ellis sitting</span><span title="00:55:24">in that chair that, um, you know, I grewup as part of this free range, uh, world</span><span title="00:55:30">largely before Etan Patz got kidnapped andthe milk carton kids changed everything.</span><span title="00:55:35">Uh, I worry about the sort of, we weretoo free range and these kids are too</span><span title="00:55:39">sheltered, that we haveto find some new new mix.</span><span title="00:55:42">But I want to get to another issue.</span>
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:43:48] I, I'm, I'm for laughing at the dark.  


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:43:50] Yeah, I laugh at the dark, it's, you know-
'''[00:55:43] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:55:43">Give me one more demographic. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:43:53] It's like everybody knows that, but you're not allowed to do it in public. So screw that. You know, we had this situation with this guy, Aaron Schwartz-
'''[00:55:44] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:55:44">Okay. </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:43:59] Did you know Aaron?
'''[00:55:45] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:55:45">Yes. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:44:00] No. Did you?
'''[00:55:45] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:55:45">Let's do it. </span><span title="00:55:46">And then we'll, we'll close it out.</span><span title="00:55:48">Um, I want to talk about somethingwhich really makes me angry and excited.</span><span title="00:55:55">I think that America has, withoutquestion, some of the finest sources, um,</span><span title="00:56:01">educationally forbrilliance in STEM subjects.</span><span title="00:56:05">And we've pretended for a very long timethat Americans are not good at STEM, that</span><span title="00:56:10">we are disinterested in STEM, that STEMcareers are fantastic when many of them</span><span title="00:56:15">are pretty shitty, and that we don'trecognize that the entire STEM complex is</span><span title="00:56:22">suffused with bullshit.</span><span title="00:56:24">Because the model, the economic model forinvesting in basic research went belly up</span><span title="00:56:30">because the, the universities were builton a growth model that was unsustainable.</span><span title="00:56:36">And I want to stop lying.</span><span title="00:56:37">So one, I want to start recognizing thatwe have high schools that have more Nobel</span><span title="00:56:43">prizes than all of China, that we areusing Chinese labor and other Asian</span><span title="00:56:49">countries, uh, not just because we areexporting education as a good, but because</span><span title="00:56:54">we have a cryptic labor market in basicresearch where we pretend people are</span><span title="00:56:59">students when they're actually workers.</span><span title="00:57:01">We pretend that we're importing them toeducate them, but actually what we're</span><span title="00:57:05">trying to do is use apoverty differential.</span><span title="00:57:07">We have our own people who are reallyfantastic because they're not very</span><span title="00:57:12">obedient, and instead people preferobedient people coming in who are, are</span><span title="00:57:18">here on temporary visas, thereforethey have to follow orders.</span><span title="00:57:21">The entire National Science Foundation,National Academy of Science complex is</span><span title="00:57:26">bizarrely suffused with nonsense.</span><span title="00:57:29">And because of this, we can't actuallyhave the national academies adjudicate</span><span title="00:57:33">what's true because they arethe prime offender of this.</span><span title="00:57:36">How do we get back to asituation which we can recognize.</span><span title="00:57:40">That we have a Stuyvesant or a Bronxscience, you know, or far Rockaway or any</span><span title="00:57:45">of these unbelievable high schools thatare turning out people who desperately</span><span title="00:57:50">want to do STEM subjects.</span><span title="00:57:52">They're not being paid when they finallyget their degrees at an appropriate level.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:44:01] I've, you know, he's a friend of friends.  
'''[00:57:56] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:57:56">Yeah. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:44:03] Yeah. You know, and this guy almost certainly was a pretty pure hearted human being who was fighting the good fight. MIT is supposed to shelter those people, and instead they cooperate, you know, in turning them over.  
'''[00:57:57] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:57:57">They've been secretly studied by our science complex because</span><span title="00:58:00">these career paths are known to be crappy,and we have completely suffused this with</span><span title="00:58:06">a mis-description so that nobodycan actually fix any problems.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:44:17] As soon as you get the institutional incentives in a particular direction, and like, I mean, this is not near, and this is just like recent, because in recent memory, but you know, I stuck up for Shane Gillis, this comedian that, um, had said-
'''[00:58:11] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:58:11">That's an incredible, uh, description.</span><span title="00:58:15">And to me, the lack of proper resourcesfor basic research, for things that ended</span><span title="00:58:22">up being foundational for manyof our current industries.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:44:30] I saw that, and the the idea that, you know, you were in a position to say, look, I'm the candidate, uh-
'''[00:58:25] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:58:25">It's the biggest bargain in the world.</span><span title="00:58:26">It's just the future you're investing in.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:44:36] He personally actually, yeah, and so if anyone should be offended, it's me. And so I think he shouldn't lose his job over it, well-
'''[00:58:28] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:58:28">It's just right now we're so, uh, brainwashed by market-driven thinking</span><span title="00:58:33">that if there's not some short-termprofitability tied to it or there's no</span><span title="00:58:37">drug company funding it, or so, somethingalong those lines that, uh, and this is</span><span title="00:58:42">something that thegovernment, historically.</span><span title="00:58:45">Has been the leader in where it said, youknow what, we can lay the foundation and</span><span title="00:58:50">create paths for people to be able to dobasic research, the benefits of which will</span><span title="00:58:56">be unclear.</span><span title="00:58:57">They may not exist.</span><span title="00:58:58">They may not materialize for decades, butit's similar to what we're talking about</span><span title="00:59:02">with the neurologically atypical kids, isthat like a few of them pay off and then</span><span title="00:59:07">the payoff can be, uh,unfathomably significant.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:44:42] Well, this is the thing, the quality of mercy, or forgiveness or, um, just recognition, uh, that there should be space for remorse and redemption, this is what makes so much of the intolerant left, feel cult-like, and I thought what you were doing was you were showing the best aspects of a truly compassionate left.
'''[00:59:11] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:59:11">Well we call this long vol.</span><span title="00:59:12">investing in hedge fund land, where mostthings don't work out, but a few that do</span><span title="00:59:17">pay for all of the losers.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:45:05] I was trying to be a human being. You know, like you looked at it and being like, well, like is that a job? Losing a fence? But then the fact that NBC ended up firing him was entirely consistent with our corporate incentives, because if you look at it and say like, well, is this person that we've invested a lot in that's some, a revenue generator for us?
'''[00:59:19] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="00:59:19">Yup. </span><span title="00:59:20">Yeah.</span><span title="00:59:20">And right now the, the, yeah.</span><span title="00:59:22">The, to me, this is a role where, uh,historically the government has led and</span><span title="00:59:27">you need a government willing to makelongterm sustained investments that, um,</span><span title="00:59:33">may only pay off way down the road and maynot pay off, but you still need to be able</span><span title="00:59:39">to make them.</span>


[00:45:25] No, because he hadn't even worked for one day. It's like our corporate incentives to can him and thoughts like, you know, put an end to any controversy or advertiser or whatnot, that would be troubled by it. Yeah. So it's like, so if you'd asked me, it's like, Hey, do you think he's going to be fired, I'd be like, Yeah, he's almost certainly going to be fired because that's what the corporate incentives [inaudible].
'''[00:59:39] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="00:59:39">Well, I also, you know, the, the, the other weird part of this is</span><span title="00:59:42">that by using our own people and letting,uh, in particular China know that it can't</span><span title="00:59:49">operate a relatively totalitariangovernment over there and have the benefit</span><span title="00:59:54">of freedom over here with a pipeline forall of our innovations to immediately go</span><span title="00:59:59">back over there, china needs to be inducedin some sense to understand that they</span><span title="01:00:05">can't get by without givingtheir people freedom.</span><span title="01:00:08">And what they're right now doing is,is that they're using our freedom and a</span><span title="01:00:11">periscope by which they can seeeverything that we're doing.</span><span title="01:00:15">And if we actually cut that off, I knowthat the universities are going to scream</span><span title="01:00:19">bloody murder, but what's going tohappen is China's going to have to start</span><span title="01:00:22">investing in its, in the right of its ownpeople to give the middle finger because</span><span title="01:00:27">irreverence is the secretof American ingenuity.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:45:44] Well I understand that, so one of the things that I'm really interested in doing-
'''[01:00:31] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="01:00:31">Yeah. </span><span title="01:00:32">Yeah.</span><span title="01:00:33">You know, this reminds me of a joke that,uh, they told an artificial intelligence,</span><span title="01:00:37">which is, How far behind isChina, uh, than the US in AI?</span><span title="01:00:41">And the answer is 12 hours.</span><span title="01:00:43">And you say, you know, obviously theywake up and then they see what we did.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:45:47] But it, it still made me sad. Like I was like, Hey, this would be unusually, uh, human and forgiving if they decided to-  
'''[01:00:47] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="01:00:47">I can't tell you how fantastic it is.</span><span title="01:00:50">They have you come into the studio.</span><span title="01:00:51">You're coming off of thisbig rally in MacArthur park.</span><span title="01:00:54">I know that it's late for both of us.</span><span title="01:00:56">You're welcome anytime to come back.</span><span title="01:00:58">I'd love to continue theconversation when you're next in LA-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:45:55] Well, they lost a teachable moment because one of the things that's going on is that so much of the information economy is very, very marginal in the sense that you're almost producing a public good.
'''[01:01:00] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="01:01:00">I would love this too, man, this feels to me like half a conversation.</span><span title="01:01:04">We're going to have to have thesecond half at some other time.</span><span title="01:01:06">So if you enjoyed this convo, let Ericknow and then, um, hopefully he'll have me</span><span title="01:01:11">back.</span><span title="01:01:11">And if you'd like to join the Yang Gang,you should know we are very, very cheap</span><span title="01:01:15">gang to join.</span>


[00:46:06] So for example, I slap ads on my podcasts, um-
'''[01:01:16] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="01:01:16">Is that right? </span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:46:10] Buy stuff from his sponsors, no I'm kidding.
'''[01:01:17] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="01:01:17">Well, our average donation is only $25.</span><span title="01:01:19">So, um, our fans are even cheaper thanBernie's, which no one even knew could be</span><span title="01:01:23">a thing in politics, but here it is.</span><span title="01:01:25">Um, but you get $25 times enough peopleand you wind up putting up very, very big</span><span title="01:01:30">numbers, and you'll see like, we'realready into the eight digits as a</span><span title="01:01:34">campaign, um, and we can take this wholething, we can contend, because a lot of</span><span title="01:01:39">people watching this right now, you're,you're ignoring politics as usual.</span><span title="01:01:43">We can actually have a different sort ofpolitics that takes real thinking, real</span><span title="01:01:47">ideas, real solutions, and brings themto the highest levels of our government.</span><span title="01:01:51">It just needs enough Erics and Pias andyou all watching it at home to say, uh, I</span><span title="01:01:57">prefer this, um, to the stuff I'm gettingthrough the, the cable TV networks-</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:46:12] What I'm trying, well, what I'm trying to do is I've tried two new models, one of which I'm calling reverse sponsorship, where I shout out some great company, uh, which doesn't know that I'm going to say something positive and maybe they become sponsors, maybe they don't, but the other one is risk-vertisers, where people get to know me over long periods of time, and the hope is that you're going to say, look, you're not going to catch me being horrible and bigoted and all of these things, but I might say something dangerous, like something that I just said about immigration, and will you make sure that you will not run away from me during the period where the mob descends and the frenzy is at its worst? Right? Because if we don't fix the economic models, we can't have deeper discussions because everybody's going to run away at the first sight of trouble. And so part of what we're trying to do ultimately with the advertising-  
'''[01:02:02] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="01:02:02">Well, Andrew you know one of the things I think that's been great</span><span title="01:02:04">about watching your meteoric rise is thatyou are outside of control without being</span><span title="01:02:09">out of control-</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:47:00] Look at this, pirate radio, pre-advertising-
'''[01:02:10] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="01:02:10">Thank you. </span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:47:03] What do you think?
'''[01:02:11] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="01:02:11">And that having a kind of a mature person who's not easily bought or</span><span title="01:02:15">swayed is, uh, speaking in a way thatnobody knows what he's going to say next</span><span title="01:02:19">has been hugely positive for theentire process, so thank you very much.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:47:04] I mean, I love it. It's like leave it to you to try and solve that kind of problem.  
'''[01:02:22] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="01:02:22">Well, thank you. </span><span title="01:02:22">You know, the, the only, uh, um, the onlycurrency I answer to is, is, um, ideas and</span><span title="01:02:30">humanity.</span><span title="01:02:31">Like you, you know, you put a good ideain front of me or, um, a good person, I</span><span title="01:02:35">listen.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:47:08] Alright, I've got some other things that I want to talk about in demographics.  
'''[01:02:35] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="01:02:35">Well, you've been that way since before, uh, all the success.</span><span title="01:02:38">So we, we wish you continued success, andwe'll have you back here the next time</span><span title="01:02:42">you're in LA with a little bit of time.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:47:11] Oh yeah, please.  
'''[01:02:44] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="01:02:44">I would love that, brother. </span><span title="01:02:45">Thank you.</span>


'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:47:12] Okay-
'''[01:02:45] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="01:02:45">Alright. </span><span title="01:02:45">Thanks.</span><span title="01:02:46">You've been through The Portal with AndrewYang, presidential candidate for 2020 and,</span><span title="01:02:51">um, telling us to makeAmerica think harder.</span>


'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:47:12] So, so, so let me first say, I am a parent of a neurologically atypical young person. Um, I agree with you that I think that many of the people who have a different perspective, are going to end up being contributors in highly distinctive ways.
'''[01:02:54] Andrew Yang:''' <span title="01:02:54">Yes. </span><span title="01:02:55">This man is going to make youthink harder all the time.</span>


[00:47:28] I will say that even kids who are not going to be contributors in highly distinctive ways still deserve schools that can support and accommodate them. Um, and, that to me, these kids are like, the shorthand I use is that they're spiky. You know, it's like you have, um, very high capacities in some respects or a different point of view, and then real challenges in other respects. And so if I send you into a social environment where there are thirty kids for one teacher, you're going to have a terrible, terrible time. And you know, and, and that's 100% predictable. And so if then you have like a critical mass of people that resemble this, uh, then you should try and design an institution that takes that into account.
'''[01:03:36] Eric Weinstein:''' <span title="01:03:36">Alright. </span><span title="01:03:39">Be well everybody</span>
 
[00:48:12] Um, and I feel so deeply for families that struggle with this, like you struggle with, it sounds like you've experienced it.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:48:19] Oh absolutely.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:48:19] I have struggled with it. And you, and Pia, you know, and me and Evelyn, like we have an unusual level of ability to try and, you know, manage situation, um, and I meet single moms around the country who have, you know, autistic or, um, neurologically atypical kids that don't have the means and they live in a part of the country that does not have like a lot of resources in place for kids that are different.
 
[00:48:44] And, it breaks my heart. Like it, the fact that there are all of these kids that are heading into these schools that are getting, um, you know, more than low grade psychic beatings.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:48:55] Oh my God, this is why I leave my, my DMs open on Twitter, and this is one of the number one things I do it for, is people write to me and they say, I know you're really busy, but I just want to tell you, nobody had ever spoken to my situation. You're proud of something I'm always ashamed of, and-
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:49:10] I guarantee you I'm not the first presidential candidate with autism in the family.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:49:13] Yeah.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:49:13] And the fact that I'm on the first talking about it is, to me, long overdue and ridiculous. Uh, and-
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:49:20] Amen.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:49:20] And you know, and I get, I get some of the same messages that you get, but you know, like I want to actually try and solve the problem for those families.
 
[00:49:28] I mean, it makes me feel glad that they feel spoken to and that they realize they're not the only ones going through it.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:49:32] I want to see, I want to see more money going to figure out how do we diversify the classroom of the future-
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:49:39] Yeah.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:49:39] So that the load isn't born by people who don't fit the economics of the teaching model.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:49:44] Yes. And part of it is that, um, that we regard the education of our kids as a cost, and so then the city then is like, well, I can't afford to have like a teacher for your, uh, neurologically atypical kid, um, and so what we have to do is, talk about inverting the model, is you have to look at the education of our children as an investment.
 
[00:50:05] Uh, and then you say, what's that? Like, these kids require, you know, like X and Y, and then we should make that investment with the certainty, and I share your confidence in this, that you have a couple of those kids do something highly atypical and remarkable, then that pays for whatever, uh, support, or, teacher, or infrastructure-
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:50:27] This is an underground movement. I mean, I just had a, a very well known professor, uh, reveal to me that he couldn't read papers, in his field, I mean, he just can't read, you know? And he has to figure out what the paper is likely to be saying. There is such a weird world of, of, um, unexpected achievement.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:50:50] And this is the demon, the demon that we have to, um, slay anyways is that, um, the negative externalities are not being encompassed within the budgets of various institutions.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:51:03] Very well said.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:51:03] But, but then also where foregoing all of the potential positive value creation or generation from proper investment in our human capital, um, and another dimension too, and this is neither here nor there, but I was just with Dean Kamen in New Hampshire and he was talking about how the FDA, like all their incentives are just to like regulate the shit out of anything.
 
[00:51:26] And then I said to him, I was like, you know, what they should start measuring is the foregone utility of keeping something away from, uh, from people, like if you had something and-
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:51:35] What is the opportunity cost of the regulations?
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:51:37] Yeah. He had like, he had like this prosthetic limb that he was trying to give to vets, and the FDA was making it really hard for him to do so, and he was like, are you kidding me? I'm trying to give limbs to Vets who've been amputated. And so by your making it hard for me to do so, like you multiply like all of the limbless Vets who aren't getting a limb, like, you know, it's like, so if you had that as like an actual measurement for the FDA, it's like you need to have these companies internalize the negative externalities of things like pollution and the rest of it, but you almost need like our institutions, like our schools and our regulatory agencies to start trying to somehow capture the potential gains from investing in our kids or allowing a certain innovation into the market.
 
[00:52:24] Like the, the, the big problems are that our measurements are really primitive. Uh, and, um, it ends up, and you end up with binary incentives where, uh, you lose a lot of the value, and so you end up being like, Hey, don't have a teacher for your kid, so your kid's gonna, you know, just end up, um, sidelined and sidelined is like a euphemistic way for saying destroyed.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:52:49] I know. One of the things I wanted to do at some point, um, I actually ended up talking to the Heritage Foundation of all people about this, was the idea of national interest waivers so that we could have a Skunkworks with very light regulation hanging off the side of every large company. And the idea is that you would put some portion of a company, you could put some portion of the company outside where the rules were effectively different because you needed people to take massive risks, to be able to move super fast, to be dealing with highly non neurotypical people.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:53:24] And this is one of the things that drives me nuts about the political conversation is like, you get like, they get like yelled at for a particular, it's like, Oh, you made a mistake, dah, dah, dah.
 
[00:53:32] It's like you kind of need to have an environment where you're going to accept a certain level of mistakes, particularly when you're talking about, um, large scale society-wide investments, where like, of course, you can't get that stuff right. And, you know, it's like, and that, the problem is that the political incentives are for everyone to try and avoid like a negative headline.
 
[00:53:51] Um, or something that, that's-
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:53:53] Look, a lot of us are very disagreeable, very difficult to deal with. And, you know, I saw you pick up, uh, endorsements from people like Elon Musk, you know, which is, then I hear his, his personal life being criticized, I was like, I don't really care. This guy is responsible for how much-
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:54:12] Advancing the species.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:54:13] How much adva- right, how much innovation? If he's got a few foibles, let's give him some privacy. Let him be in peace and just recognize that we're getting an unbelievable deal and yet this desire to somehow stamp out outliers, I mean, outliers are essential to the American project.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:54:33] Yes, I could not agree more.
 
[00:54:35] And you know, I, I'd consider myself, it's pretty funny Eric, cause I, you know, um, I think I had, uh, in many ways, like a highly conventional, uh, upbringing, um, that helped. Like, I feel like I'm sort of a hybrid where, uh, to the extent that I was highly contrarian or dissimilar, you know, it's like, I, you know, I've, I came up through a series of institutions in an era where, um, you know, I think I learned to adapt. Um, but then I look at my boys and I think to myself that, um, you know, that, that their way of life is going to be very, very different than, than mine. I'm sure yours too, cause we came of age in a different era.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:55:20] Well this is true. I mean I was just talking about this actually breath, Bret Easton Ellis sitting in that chair that, um, you know, I grew up as part of this free range, uh, world largely before Etan Patz got kidnapped and the milk carton kids changed everything. Uh, I worry about the sort of, we were too free range and these kids are too sheltered, that we have to find some new new mix. But I want to get to another issue.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:55:43] Give me one more demographic.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:55:44] Okay.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:55:45] Yes.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:55:45] Let's do it. And then we'll, we'll close it out. Um, I want to talk about something which really makes me angry and excited. I think that America has, without question, some of the finest sources, um, educationally for brilliance in STEM subjects. And we've pretended for a very long time that Americans are not good at STEM, that we are disinterested in STEM, that STEM careers are fantastic when many of them are pretty shitty, and that we don't recognize that the entire STEM complex is suffused with bullshit. Because the model, the economic model for investing in basic research went belly up because the, the universities were built on a growth model that was unsustainable.
 
[00:56:36] And I want to stop lying. So one, I want to start recognizing that we have high schools that have more Nobel prizes than all of China, that we are using Chinese labor and other Asian countries, uh, not just because we are exporting education as a good, but because we have a cryptic labor market in basic research where we pretend people are students when they're actually workers.
 
[00:57:01] We pretend that we're importing them to educate them, but actually what we're trying to do is use a poverty differential. We have our own people who are really fantastic because they're not very obedient, and instead people prefer obedient people coming in who are, are here on temporary visas, therefore they have to follow orders.
 
[00:57:21] The entire National Science Foundation, National Academy of Science complex is bizarrely suffused with nonsense. And because of this, we can't actually have the national academies adjudicate what's true because they are the prime offender of this. How do we get back to a situation which we can recognize.
 
[00:57:40] That we have a Stuyvesant or a Bronx science, you know, or far Rockaway or any of these unbelievable high schools that are turning out people who desperately want to do STEM subjects. They're not being paid when they finally get their degrees at an appropriate level.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:57:56] Yeah.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:57:57] They've been secretly studied by our science complex because these career paths are known to be crappy, and we have completely suffused this with a mis-description so that nobody can actually fix any problems.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:58:11] That's an incredible, uh, description. And to me, the lack of proper resources for basic research, for things that ended up being foundational for many of our current industries.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:58:25] It's the biggest bargain in the world. It's just the future you're investing in.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:58:28] It's just right now we're so, uh, brainwashed by market-driven thinking that if there's not some short-term profitability tied to it or there's no drug company funding it, or so, something along those lines that, uh, and this is something that the government, historically. Has been the leader in where it said, you know what, we can lay the foundation and create paths for people to be able to do basic research, the benefits of which will be unclear. They may not exist.
 
[00:58:58] They may not materialize for decades, but it's similar to what we're talking about with the neurologically atypical kids, is that like a few of them pay off and then the payoff can be, uh, unfathomably significant.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:59:11] Well we call this long vol. (volatility)  investing in hedge fund land, where most things don't work out, but a few that do pay for all of the losers.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [00:59:19] Yup. Yeah. And right now the, the, yeah. The, to me, this is a role where, uh, historically the government has led and you need a government willing to make longterm sustained investments that, um, may only pay off way down the road and may not pay off, but you still need to be able to make them.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [00:59:39] Well, I also, you know, the, the, the other weird part of this is that by using our own people and letting, uh, in particular China know that it can't operate a relatively totalitarian government over there and have the benefit of freedom over here with a pipeline for all of our innovations to immediately go back over there, china needs to be induced in some sense to understand that they can't get by without giving their people freedom. And what they're right now doing is, is that they're using our freedom and a periscope by which they can see everything that we're doing.
 
[01:00:15] And if we actually cut that off, I know that the universities are going to scream bloody murder, but what's going to happen is China's going to have to start investing in its, in the right of its own people to give the middle finger because irreverence is the secret of American ingenuity.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [01:00:31] Yeah. Yeah. You know, this reminds me of a joke that, uh, they told an artificial intelligence, which is, How far behind is China, uh, than the US in AI?
 
[01:00:41] And the answer is 12 hours. And you say, you know, obviously they wake up and then they see what we did.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [01:00:47] I can't tell you how fantastic it is. They have you come into the studio. You're coming off of this big rally in MacArthur park. I know that it's late for both of us. You're welcome anytime to come back.
 
[01:00:58] I'd love to continue the conversation when you're next in LA-
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [01:01:00] I would love this too, man, this feels to me like half a conversation. We're going to have to have the second half at some other time. So if you enjoyed this convo, let Eric know and then, um, hopefully he'll have me back. And if you'd like to join the Yang Gang, you should know we are very, very cheap gang to join.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [01:01:16] Is that right?
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [01:01:17] Well, our average donation is only $25. So, um, our fans are even cheaper than Bernie's, which no one even knew could be a thing in politics, but here it is. Um, but you get $25 times enough people and you wind up putting up very, very big numbers, and you'll see like, we're already into the eight digits as a campaign, um, and we can take this whole thing, we can contend, because a lot of people watching this right now, you're, you're ignoring politics as usual. We can actually have a different sort of politics that takes real thinking, real ideas, real solutions, and brings them to the highest levels of our government. It just needs enough Erics and Pias and you all watching it at home to say, uh, I prefer this, um, to the stuff I'm getting through the, the cable TV networks-
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [01:02:02] Well, Andrew you know one of the things I think that's been great about watching your meteoric rise is that you are outside of control without being out of control-
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [01:02:10] Thank you.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [01:02:11] And that having a kind of a mature person who's not easily bought or swayed is, uh, speaking in a way that nobody knows what he's going to say next has been hugely positive for the entire process, so thank you very much.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [01:02:22] Well, thank you. You know, the, the only, uh, um, the only currency I answer to is, is, um, ideas and humanity. Like you, you know, you put a good idea in front of me or, um, a good person, I listen.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [01:02:35] Well, you've been that way since before, uh, all the success.
 
[01:02:38] So we, we wish you continued success, and we'll have you back here the next time you're in LA with a little bit of time.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [01:02:44] I would love that, brother. Thank you.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [01:02:45] Alright. Thanks. You've been through The Portal with Andrew Yang, presidential candidate for 2020 and, um, telling us to make America think harder.
 
'''Andrew Yang:''' [01:02:54] Yes. This man is going to make you think harder all the time.
 
'''Eric Weinstein:''' [01:03:36] Alright. Be well everybody.


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