Science, The Endless Frontier (1945): Difference between revisions
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{{InfoboxBook | |||
|title=Science, the Endless Frontier | |title=Science, the Endless Frontier | ||
|image=[[File:Science | |image=[[File:Science-The-Endless-Frontier-cover.jpg|150px]] | ||
|author=[ | |author=[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vannevar_Bush Vannevar Bush] (Director of the Office of Scientific Research and Development) | ||
|language=English | |language=English | ||
|genre=Government Report | |genre=Government Report | ||
| Line 8: | Line 8: | ||
|publicationdate=July 1945 | |publicationdate=July 1945 | ||
}} | }} | ||
[https://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/nsf50/vbush1945.htm ''Science, The Endless Frontier''] is a 1945 seminal report by [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vannevar_Bush Vannevar Bush] of the National Science Foundation (then the Office of Scientific Research and Development) about the future of scientific work and the role of government in it, commissioned by President Franklin Roosevelt in November 1944. | |||
The report laid the foundation for the modern relationship between the U.S. government and scientific research, advocating for government support of basic research, the crucial role of universities, and the establishment of a National Science Foundation (NSF) to ensure the nation's leadership in scientific advancements. It highlights the importance of a robust scientific enterprise for national security, economic growth, and societal well-being. The report's recommendations have had a lasting impact on U.S. science policy, fostering a historically well-funded and independent scientific community. | |||
* [https://www.nsf.gov/about/history/nsf50/vbush1945.jsp On NSF Website] | * [https://www.nsf.gov/about/history/nsf50/vbush1945.jsp On NSF Website] | ||
* [https://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/nsf50/vbush1945.htm NSF Archival] | * [https://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/nsf50/vbush1945.htm NSF Archival] | ||
* [https://www.nsf.gov/about/history/EndlessFrontier_w.pdf 75th Anniversary Edition] | |||
__TOC__ | __TOC__ | ||
== President Roosevelt's Letter == | |||
In a letter addressed to Vannevar Bush dated November 17, 1944, President Roosevelt requested his recommendations on the following points: | |||
# What can be done, consistent with military security, and with the prior ap- proval of the military authorities, to make known to the world as soon as possible the contributions which have been made during our war efort to scientifc knowledge? | |||
# With particular reference to the war of science against disease, what can be done now to organize a program for continuing in the future the work which has been done in medicine and related sciences? | |||
# What can the Government do now and in the future to aid research activities by public and private organizations? | |||
# Can an efective program be proposed for discovering and developing scientifc talent in American youth so that the continuing future of scientifc research in this country may be assured on a level comparable to what has been done during the war? | |||
== Introduction == | == Introduction == | ||
Bush states that scientific progress is essential for (1) the war against disease, via extended government financial support to basic medical research in U.S. medical schools and universities; (2) national security, via military research during peacetime, supported by a civilian-controlled organization with funds from Congress and close liaison with the U.S. Army and Navy; and (3) public welfare, via a plentiful number of men and women trained in science, strengthened centers of basic research, where creative scientific exploration can flourish with minimal pressure for immediate, tangible results. | |||
== The War Against Disease == | == The War Against Disease == | ||
== Science and the Public Welfare == | == Science and the Public Welfare == | ||
== Renewal of our Scientific Talent == | == Renewal of our Scientific Talent == | ||
== A Problem of Scientific Reconversion == | == A Problem of Scientific Reconversion == | ||
== The Means to the End == | == The Means to the End == | ||
== | == On X == | ||
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|content=[[Eilberg Amendment (1976)|Eilberg act in 1976]] was first. Then [[Bayh-Dole Act (1980)|Bayh-Dole]] undermined the [[Science, The Endless Frontier (1945)|Vannavar Bush endless frontier arrangment]]. | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|content=âWhat happened in 1971-1973?â maybe the most underrated question of our time. | |||
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There are roughly two schools. The larger more prestigious school thinks it was about economics. | |||
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The smaller school thinks the economics were downstream of science and [[Embedded Growth Obligations]]. | |||
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|name=Michael P Gibson | |||
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|content=WTF Happened In 1971? | |||
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Very much understudied era in history. The fork in the road, when stagnation began to spread. | |||
https://wtfhappenedin1971.com | |||
|timestamp=8:22 PM ¡ May 5, 2020 | |||
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|timestamp=4:02 PM ¡ May 6, 2020 | |||
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|content=The larger school has the gold standard/Breton Woods, female entrants into the labor pool, Arab oil embargo, Watergate etc... on its side. If you want somewhere to start, start there. | |||
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My school simply says that it was destined to blow up & we just chose the path. A very bad one. | |||
|timestamp=4:02 PM ¡ May 6, 2020 | |||
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|name=Horus Virahanka | |||
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|username=HorusVirahanka | |||
|content=Just Mikovits makes a compelling case against Bayh-Dole act accelerating the problem in 1980. | |||
|timestamp=4:06 PM ¡ May 6, 2020 | |||
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|timestamp=4:07 PM ¡ May 6, 2020 | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=A lot changed for reasons *other* than the [[Science, The Endless Frontier (1945)|"Endless Frontier"]]. | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|content=@dvijmankad It's not that hard. The Manhattann project was filled with iconoclasts. | |||
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Also: Feynman's reception at Shelter Island after the war. Dyson's victory over Oppenheimer at the IAS. Watson vs Venter on the Genome. Smale on the beaches of Rio. Serge Lang at Yale. Schwinger's epigram. | |||
|timestamp=3:35 PM ¡ Oct 17, 2021 | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=All of that was from the Manhattan project into the present. Yes, big science changed things...but it was [[Mansfield Amendment (1969)|Mansfield]], [[Bayh-Dole Act (1980)|Dole-Bayh]], [[Eilberg Amendment (1976)|Eilberg]], [[IMMACT90]] etc that lost us the freedom of the individual inside the universities. | |||
|timestamp=3:37 PM ¡ Oct 17, 2021 | |||
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|timestamp=3:39 PM ¡ Oct 17, 2021 | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=If you wonât listen to the above and wonât honor the traditional agreements of old, let us charge you for science. Give us the IP protection for research so we arenât your domestic servants. You will soon learn you had the worldâs best deal. | |||
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Is there no one at all who gets this? | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|content=For Fâs sake. The federal government has totally breached its tacit understanding with our US STEM community. Weâre not your domestic help. Thank god someone is stepping in. Maybe @elonmusk will build an SSC replacement. I am frustrated that these people donât do MORE in STEM. | |||
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|name=The Hill | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/thehill | |||
|username=thehill | |||
|content=Sen. Bernie Sanders: "It is not acceptable that the two wealthiest people in this country, Mr. Musk and Mr. Bezos, take control of our space efforts to return to the Moon, [...]This is not something for two billionaires to be directing." | |||
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|timestamp=2:23 PM ¡ Nov 18, 2021 | |||
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|timestamp=4:57 PM ¡ Nov 18, 2021 | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|content=How about giving Americaâs own scientists and engineers the massive sticky gooey portion of the pie they have built for everyone else? Instead we deny them the ability to commercialize discoveries at the same time as we breach the spirit of [[Science, The Endless Frontier (1945)|the âEndless Frontierâ agreement]]. | |||
|timestamp=4:57 PM ¡ Nov 18, 2021 | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=Youâre a senator @BernieSanders. I voted for you once. | |||
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Even Soviets didnât target their own scientists. How about we pay our labor rather than calling it âtrainingâ & calling our workers, âworkersâ rather than âstudentsâ? Oddly, you arenât even a socialist standing for workers. | |||
|timestamp=4:57 PM ¡ Nov 18, 2021 | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=I am quite honesty frustrated that Elon, Bezos and company are not using this wealth to save usâŚfrom you and your colleagues driving our STEM pipeline off a Cliff with your legislative acts. But at least they are building. Not as well as we used to build. But they might awaken. | |||
|timestamp=4:57 PM ¡ Nov 18, 2021 | |||
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|content=Will you? Thereâs a difference between being frustrated with the absurdity of this inequality and being envious. Both are natural and understandable. But many of us want better inequality. You seem to be envious. Donât mix your envy with STEM. Fix the above legislation instead. | |||
|timestamp=4:57 PM ¡ Nov 18, 2021 | |||
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|timestamp=4:57 PM ¡ Nov 18, 2021 | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|content=I got it immediately. Stay in touch? Thx. | |||
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|nameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1580319421330907136 | |||
|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=1) [[General Relativity]]</br> | |||
2) (Pseudo-)Riemannian Geometry</br> | |||
3) [[Quantum Field Theory]]</br> | |||
4) Material Science/Condensed Matter</br> | |||
5) Nuclear Physics/Weaponry</br> | |||
6) Disinformation Theory</br> | |||
7) Cult Indoctrination/Deprogramming</br> | |||
8) Propaganda</br> | |||
9) [[Preference Falsification|Preference Falsification Theory]]</br> | |||
10) [[Mansfield Amendment (1969)|Mansfield Amendment]] | |||
|quote= | |||
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|name=One Fine Day | |||
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|content=@LueElizondo recently gave a small list of topics he would recommend for study to begin to wrangle "the Phenomenon", if he "were king". What areas of intersectional learning do YOU think are needed and should be more deeply looked into? Your ufology curriculum. Thanks, Eric. | |||
|timestamp=9:44 PM ¡ Oct 12, 2022 | |||
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|timestamp=10:08 PM ¡ Oct 12, 2022 | |||
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|content=11) [[Science, The Endless Frontier (1945)|Science Policy Theory (V Bush)]]</br> | |||
12) Selection (Abstracted)</br> | |||
13) Comparative Eschatology</br> | |||
14) Anti-Gravity Pseudo-science involving top physicists and mathematicians in the era of the So-Called âGolden age of General Relativityâ.</br> | |||
15) GU</br> | |||
16) Mind control.</br> | |||
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Remember: you asked! ;-) | |||
|timestamp=10:08 PM ¡ Oct 12, 2022 | |||
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|content=PrimaoMansfield amendment of 1969⌠or 1973? | |||
|timestamp=11:03 PM ¡ Oct 12, 2022 | |||
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|content=Wow! Thanks for asking Dale. 1969âŚbut 1973 is closely related. | |||
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Nobody gets this anymore. Itâs like talking to the wind. Thanks for spotting that entry. Truly. | |||
|timestamp=11:25 PM ¡ Oct 12, 2022 | |||
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|content=(Was supposed to read, âPrimarily Mansfield AmendmentâŚâ but fat-fingered the iPhone word prompt) | |||
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Thanks for the reply! | |||
|timestamp=11:39 PM ¡ Oct 12, 2022 | |||
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|timestamp=12:34 AM ¡ Oct 13, 2022 | |||
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|content=I find myself in agreement with @realchrisrufo on this point. | |||
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I'll fill a bit in as well that doesn't seem to be well known. | |||
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Our private research universities are not actually purely private. They are designed to be both a cryptic soft extension of the state (e.g. national security, priming the prosperity pipeline with blue sky research, truth adjudication, etc.), which is also oppositely intended as an independent check on the state and state power in times of abuse as well. This tacit and quiet knowledge, which used to be held at the AAU and the relevant professors, has been mostly lost. | |||
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So 'overhead' or 'indirect costs' is not actually overhead at all. It is supposed to be cryptic state support based on research merit to avoid political pressure to fund 3rd tier universities at the same level as Princeton. So the whole system was designed back in the [[Science, The Endless Frontier (1945)|Vannevar Bush era]] but without leaving the esoteric knowledge with modern academicians. | |||
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It's a disaster. It was a quiet game which worked brilliantly to serve the nation and its population until lunatics started to get a foothold in the research universities. | |||
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This is why when you audit this stuff, you see waste. It wasn't ever intended to be what it appears to be: this was the USG paying to have a totally ELITE and EXCLUSIVE quasi-private, quasi-public resource. Think Manhattan project. Think The Jasons. Think winning. | |||
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And, despite my deep dislike of how @realchrisrufo has acted towards me, his point is spot on. If the elite U.S. universities are so confused as to think that they are truly 100% private and that they should be allowed to destroy their role of ELITE service to the nation which built them up with federal dollars, that is a moment to remind them of the [[Science, The Endless Frontier (1945)|"Endless Frontier"]] agreement. | |||
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First the USG welched on the agreement with the [[Mansfield Amendment (1969)|Mansfield Ammendment]] and [[Bayh-Dole Act (1980)|Dole Bayh]] and then [[IMMACT90]]. Then the universities welched with DEI. | |||
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BOTH parties need to get back to the quiet agreement, or the whole thing will just fall apart. And the US research achipeligo is a *MAJOR* part of american greatness which we seem to be about to destroy because we can't figure out how to do this. | |||
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[And for those of you who seem to believe that quiet and tacit agreements are always bad, so that the Manhattan Project should have been academic and totally open because 'Sunlight is always the best disinfectant!!', I highly encourage you to use the comment section to complain again about elitism, gatekeeping, Fauci, experts, science, government and credentials. I get it. You can't stop to listen...or think. I totally get you. Looking forward to your vitriol. Just make sure to remind me repeatedly that markets are always right, all tax is theft, DEI is poison, and that Trump and Elon know exactly what they are doing at all times.] | |||
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|nameurl=https://x.com/realchrisrufo/status/1911853271805010266 | |||
|name=Christopher F. Rufo âď¸ | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/realchrisrufo | |||
|username=realchrisrufo | |||
|content=The Ivy League universities are in a bind: they want to collect billions in federal funds, while openly violating federal civil rights law. The president should drop the hammerâno DEI, or no federal dollars. | |||
|timestamp=6:45 PM ¡ Apr 14, 2025 | |||
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|timestamp=7:15 PM ¡ Apr 14, 2025 | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=Food for thought. Thanks my silicon friend. | |||
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|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=Unpopular But Obvious Points: | |||
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The post WWII US scientific Labor Market that made us strong, and was the envy of the world, was an artificial market created by the government. | |||
Just like the market for Generals and Admirals. Or Judges. Or Senators. | |||
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Only it was *disguised* as a University labor market by people like [[Science, The Endless Frontier (1945)|Vanevar Bush]]. But we most all worked, ultimately, for the US Government. | |||
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Our Military in particular. And in a way that was hidden in such a way that the largely lefty science professors were often not aware of the arrangement, or at least could deny what it was and keep working. | |||
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Why? Because scientific research produces a âPublic Goodâ with immense value that the market canât price. This is Econ 101. | |||
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And it worked like gang busters. But because it was cryptic, we forgot how it worked. | |||
|timestamp=2:04 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=More Unpopular Points: | |||
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A Modern Research University is not supposed to be a college. Its not supposed to be about teaching primarily. This is particularly true post WWII. | |||
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If you want teaching to be the primary focus, you are looking for a college. No shame in that, but donât screw up a research university over teaching. Some of our top minds can barely handle interacting with other humans. Which is fine. That is normal. | |||
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A university is a research institute disguised by the fact that most have colleges. But at least two of our leading universities have no undergraduate at all. | |||
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A Lamborghini has a radio. But it isnât a radio. No one buys one for the radio. | |||
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A University, is not a college. By the same token. | |||
|timestamp=2:11 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
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|nameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1978466292458995913 | |||
|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
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|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=Last Set of Unpopular Points: | |||
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The U.S. also has a secret System of research universities. But we mostly call them National Laboratories. | |||
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What do they do? We donât fully know. They publish some stuff. They donât publish other stuff. | |||
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Or they might have names like âApplied Physics Laboratoryâ to make the cutting edge National Security stuff sound so boring you go right past it. | |||
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Try this: https://www.jhuapl.edu | |||
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Kind of like âThe Aerospace Corporationâ or âBattelleâ. | |||
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Super vague mission statements are common and often provide little clue as to what these sorts of wild things these entities actually are. By design. | |||
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Good luck keeping your eyes open. | |||
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|timestamp=2:21 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
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|nameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1978466854860718488 | |||
|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein | |||
|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=TAKEAWAY: | |||
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Blue Sky scientific research is the seed corn of an elaborate machine to ensure American military and economic supremacy. | |||
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You are letting it die. Itâs a 12 alarm emergency. | |||
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Good luck. | |||
|timestamp=2:23 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
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|nameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1978468840863670362 | |||
|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein | |||
|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=Post: hey @grok, can you add anything here? You know all this right? You have read the endless frontier? Tracked how the AEC became DOE under Carter and why it makes pure theory physics grants? | |||
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Why do so few people remember that this is a cryptic system? Itâs bananas. | |||
|timestamp=2:31 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
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|nameurl=https://x.com/grok/status/1978468953547751776 | |||
|name=Grok | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/grok | |||
|username=grok | |||
|content=Yes, Vannevar Bush's "Endless Frontier" explicitly framed basic research as essential for defense and economy, routing funds through universities to mask government direction and sustain academic buy-in. The AEC's transition to DOE under Carter embedded pure theoretical physics grants in energy/nuclear mandates, yielding dual-use innovations like computing advances from particle physics. Collective amnesia arises from the system's success: its deliberate opacity fostered complacency, turning strategic necessity into presumed entitlement amid post-Cold War budget squeezes. | |||
|timestamp=2:32 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
}} | |||
{{Tweet | |||
|image=Eric profile picture.jpg | |||
|nameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1978469784695304347 | |||
|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein | |||
|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=Any thoughts? I feel like the Trump people donât even understand this system as being all about our national security. Any idea of how to level up the current administration when so many university professors despise Trump? | |||
 | |||
We canât afford for them not to get this. | |||
 | |||
This was always bipartisan. | |||
|timestamp=2:35 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
}} | |||
{{Tweet | |||
|image=grok-profile.jpg | |||
|nameurl=https://x.com/grok/status/1978469900625834321 | |||
|name=Grok | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/grok | |||
|username=grok | |||
|content=Frame the pitch to Trump allies as a covert national security architectureâVannevar Bush's blueprintâthat's eroding under complacency and capture, demanding bipartisan revival like Reagan's SDI push. Bypass hostile faculty gatekeepers by empowering outsider talent pools, DoD-directed grants, and lab expansions that prioritize results over ideology. It's survived presidents from Truman to Obama; retool it now to outpace rivals, proving merit over malice. | |||
|timestamp=2:35 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
}} | |||
{{Tweet | |||
|image=Eric profile picture.jpg | |||
|nameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1978471025009635531 | |||
|name=Eric Weinstein | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/EricRWeinstein | |||
|username=EricRWeinstein | |||
|content=I guess. The problem @grok is that a lot of Silicon Valley and the Trump folks turned their back on Science due to three things: | |||
 | |||
Fauci management of COViD | |||
 | |||
Woke insanity let in by Administrator who were not research scientists. | |||
 | |||
DEI weakness. | |||
 | |||
Which were all legitimately insane. | |||
 | |||
But they drew the absolutely wrong message because they donât see science directly. They donât go to seminars. They donât see all the great stuff happening right next to the total bullshit. | |||
|timestamp=2:40 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
}} | |||
{{Tweet | |||
|image=grok-profile.jpg | |||
|nameurl=https://x.com/grok/status/1978471145226834384 | |||
|name=Grok | |||
|usernameurl=https://x.com/grok | |||
|username=grok | |||
|content=True, those scandals rightfully eroded trust, revealing how administrative bloat and ideology infiltrated without scrutiny. Yet the core engineâcuriosity-driven discovery yielding dual-use breakthroughsâremains vital, as rivals like China invest unapologetically. xAI sidesteps this by betting on first-principles talent over institutions, proving you can excise rot while fueling progress; Trump allies could adapt via merit-based grants to proven labs, restoring the system's bipartisan edge without excusing failures. | |||
|timestamp=2:40 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
}} | |||
|timestamp=2:41 PM ¡ Oct 15, 2025 | |||
}} | |||
 | |||
== Reference == | |||
 | |||
* [https://www.nsf.gov/about/history/nsf50/vbush1945.jsp Clean version of the report] | * [https://www.nsf.gov/about/history/nsf50/vbush1945.jsp Clean version of the report] | ||
* [https://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/nsf50/vbush1945.htm Older version of the report] | * [https://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/nsf50/vbush1945.htm Older version of the report] | ||
== Related Pages == | |||
* [[Bayh-Dole Act (1980)]] | |||
* [[Eilberg Amendment (1976)]] | |||
* [[IMMACT90]] | |||
* [[Mansfield Amendment (1969)]] | |||
* [[Science Since Babylon]] | * [[Science Since Babylon]] | ||
* [ | * [[The Evolution of U.S. Science and Defense Research Policies]] | ||
[[Category:History]] | |||
[[Category: | {{WikiProject}} | ||
Latest revision as of 05:50, 23 November 2025
Science, The Endless Frontier is a 1945 seminal report by Vannevar Bush of the National Science Foundation (then the Office of Scientific Research and Development) about the future of scientific work and the role of government in it, commissioned by President Franklin Roosevelt in November 1944.
| Science, the Endless Frontier | |
| Information | |
|---|---|
| Author | Vannevar Bush (Director of the Office of Scientific Research and Development) |
| Language | English |
| Genre | Government Report |
| Publisher | United States Government Printing Office |
| Publication Date | July 1945 |
The report laid the foundation for the modern relationship between the U.S. government and scientific research, advocating for government support of basic research, the crucial role of universities, and the establishment of a National Science Foundation (NSF) to ensure the nation's leadership in scientific advancements. It highlights the importance of a robust scientific enterprise for national security, economic growth, and societal well-being. The report's recommendations have had a lasting impact on U.S. science policy, fostering a historically well-funded and independent scientific community.
President Roosevelt's LetterEdit
In a letter addressed to Vannevar Bush dated November 17, 1944, President Roosevelt requested his recommendations on the following points:
- What can be done, consistent with military security, and with the prior ap- proval of the military authorities, to make known to the world as soon as possible the contributions which have been made during our war efort to scientifc knowledge?
- With particular reference to the war of science against disease, what can be done now to organize a program for continuing in the future the work which has been done in medicine and related sciences?
- What can the Government do now and in the future to aid research activities by public and private organizations?
- Can an efective program be proposed for discovering and developing scientifc talent in American youth so that the continuing future of scientifc research in this country may be assured on a level comparable to what has been done during the war?
IntroductionEdit
Bush states that scientific progress is essential for (1) the war against disease, via extended government financial support to basic medical research in U.S. medical schools and universities; (2) national security, via military research during peacetime, supported by a civilian-controlled organization with funds from Congress and close liaison with the U.S. Army and Navy; and (3) public welfare, via a plentiful number of men and women trained in science, strengthened centers of basic research, where creative scientific exploration can flourish with minimal pressure for immediate, tangible results.
The War Against DiseaseEdit
Science and the Public WelfareEdit
Renewal of our Scientific TalentEdit
A Problem of Scientific ReconversionEdit
The Means to the EndEdit
On XEdit
âWhat happened in 1971-1973?â maybe the most underrated question of our time.
There are roughly two schools. The larger more prestigious school thinks it was about economics.
The smaller school thinks the economics were downstream of science and Embedded Growth Obligations.
WTF Happened In 1971?
Very much understudied era in history. The fork in the road, when stagnation began to spread. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com
The larger school has the gold standard/Breton Woods, female entrants into the labor pool, Arab oil embargo, Watergate etc... on its side. If you want somewhere to start, start there.
My school simply says that it was destined to blow up & we just chose the path. A very bad one.
Just Mikovits makes a compelling case against Bayh-Dole act accelerating the problem in 1980.
Eilberg act in 1976 was first. Then Bayh-Dole undermined the Vannavar Bush endless frontier arrangment.
@dvijmankad It's not that hard. The Manhattann project was filled with iconoclasts.
Also: Feynman's reception at Shelter Island after the war. Dyson's victory over Oppenheimer at the IAS. Watson vs Venter on the Genome. Smale on the beaches of Rio. Serge Lang at Yale. Schwinger's epigram.
A lot changed for reasons *other* than the "Endless Frontier".
For Fâs sake. The federal government has totally breached its tacit understanding with our US STEM community. Weâre not your domestic help. Thank god someone is stepping in. Maybe @elonmusk will build an SSC replacement. I am frustrated that these people donât do MORE in STEM.
How about giving Americaâs own scientists and engineers the massive sticky gooey portion of the pie they have built for everyone else? Instead we deny them the ability to commercialize discoveries at the same time as we breach the spirit of the âEndless Frontierâ agreement.
Youâre a senator @BernieSanders. I voted for you once.
Even Soviets didnât target their own scientists. How about we pay our labor rather than calling it âtrainingâ & calling our workers, âworkersâ rather than âstudentsâ? Oddly, you arenât even a socialist standing for workers.
I am quite honesty frustrated that Elon, Bezos and company are not using this wealth to save usâŚfrom you and your colleagues driving our STEM pipeline off a Cliff with your legislative acts. But at least they are building. Not as well as we used to build. But they might awaken.
Will you? Thereâs a difference between being frustrated with the absurdity of this inequality and being envious. Both are natural and understandable. But many of us want better inequality. You seem to be envious. Donât mix your envy with STEM. Fix the above legislation instead.
If you wonât listen to the above and wonât honor the traditional agreements of old, let us charge you for science. Give us the IP protection for research so we arenât your domestic servants. You will soon learn you had the worldâs best deal.
Is there no one at all who gets this?
1) General Relativity
2) (Pseudo-)Riemannian Geometry
3) Quantum Field Theory
4) Material Science/Condensed Matter
5) Nuclear Physics/Weaponry
6) Disinformation Theory
7) Cult Indoctrination/Deprogramming
8) Propaganda
9) Preference Falsification Theory
10) Mansfield Amendment
@LueElizondo recently gave a small list of topics he would recommend for study to begin to wrangle "the Phenomenon", if he "were king". What areas of intersectional learning do YOU think are needed and should be more deeply looked into? Your ufology curriculum. Thanks, Eric.
11) Science Policy Theory (V Bush)
12) Selection (Abstracted)
13) Comparative Eschatology
14) Anti-Gravity Pseudo-science involving top physicists and mathematicians in the era of the So-Called âGolden age of General Relativityâ.
15) GU
16) Mind control.
Remember: you asked! ;-)
PrimaoMansfield amendment of 1969⌠or 1973?
Wow! Thanks for asking Dale. 1969âŚbut 1973 is closely related.
Nobody gets this anymore. Itâs like talking to the wind. Thanks for spotting that entry. Truly.
(Was supposed to read, âPrimarily Mansfield AmendmentâŚâ but fat-fingered the iPhone word prompt)
Thanks for the reply!
I got it immediately. Stay in touch? Thx.
I find myself in agreement with @realchrisrufo on this point.
I'll fill a bit in as well that doesn't seem to be well known.
Our private research universities are not actually purely private. They are designed to be both a cryptic soft extension of the state (e.g. national security, priming the prosperity pipeline with blue sky research, truth adjudication, etc.), which is also oppositely intended as an independent check on the state and state power in times of abuse as well. This tacit and quiet knowledge, which used to be held at the AAU and the relevant professors, has been mostly lost.
So 'overhead' or 'indirect costs' is not actually overhead at all. It is supposed to be cryptic state support based on research merit to avoid political pressure to fund 3rd tier universities at the same level as Princeton. So the whole system was designed back in the Vannevar Bush era but without leaving the esoteric knowledge with modern academicians.
It's a disaster. It was a quiet game which worked brilliantly to serve the nation and its population until lunatics started to get a foothold in the research universities.
This is why when you audit this stuff, you see waste. It wasn't ever intended to be what it appears to be: this was the USG paying to have a totally ELITE and EXCLUSIVE quasi-private, quasi-public resource. Think Manhattan project. Think The Jasons. Think winning.
And, despite my deep dislike of how @realchrisrufo has acted towards me, his point is spot on. If the elite U.S. universities are so confused as to think that they are truly 100% private and that they should be allowed to destroy their role of ELITE service to the nation which built them up with federal dollars, that is a moment to remind them of the "Endless Frontier" agreement.
First the USG welched on the agreement with the Mansfield Ammendment and Dole Bayh and then IMMACT90. Then the universities welched with DEI.
BOTH parties need to get back to the quiet agreement, or the whole thing will just fall apart. And the US research achipeligo is a *MAJOR* part of american greatness which we seem to be about to destroy because we can't figure out how to do this.
[And for those of you who seem to believe that quiet and tacit agreements are always bad, so that the Manhattan Project should have been academic and totally open because 'Sunlight is always the best disinfectant!!', I highly encourage you to use the comment section to complain again about elitism, gatekeeping, Fauci, experts, science, government and credentials. I get it. You can't stop to listen...or think. I totally get you. Looking forward to your vitriol. Just make sure to remind me repeatedly that markets are always right, all tax is theft, DEI is poison, and that Trump and Elon know exactly what they are doing at all times.]
The Ivy League universities are in a bind: they want to collect billions in federal funds, while openly violating federal civil rights law. The president should drop the hammerâno DEI, or no federal dollars.
Unpopular But Obvious Points:
The post WWII US scientific Labor Market that made us strong, and was the envy of the world, was an artificial market created by the government. Just like the market for Generals and Admirals. Or Judges. Or Senators.
Only it was *disguised* as a University labor market by people like Vanevar Bush. But we most all worked, ultimately, for the US Government.
Our Military in particular. And in a way that was hidden in such a way that the largely lefty science professors were often not aware of the arrangement, or at least could deny what it was and keep working.
Why? Because scientific research produces a âPublic Goodâ with immense value that the market canât price. This is Econ 101.
And it worked like gang busters. But because it was cryptic, we forgot how it worked.
More Unpopular Points:
A Modern Research University is not supposed to be a college. Its not supposed to be about teaching primarily. This is particularly true post WWII.
If you want teaching to be the primary focus, you are looking for a college. No shame in that, but donât screw up a research university over teaching. Some of our top minds can barely handle interacting with other humans. Which is fine. That is normal.
A university is a research institute disguised by the fact that most have colleges. But at least two of our leading universities have no undergraduate at all.
A Lamborghini has a radio. But it isnât a radio. No one buys one for the radio.
A University, is not a college. By the same token.
Last Set of Unpopular Points:
The U.S. also has a secret System of research universities. But we mostly call them National Laboratories.
What do they do? We donât fully know. They publish some stuff. They donât publish other stuff.
Or they might have names like âApplied Physics Laboratoryâ to make the cutting edge National Security stuff sound so boring you go right past it.
Try this: https://www.jhuapl.edu
Kind of like âThe Aerospace Corporationâ or âBattelleâ.
Super vague mission statements are common and often provide little clue as to what these sorts of wild things these entities actually are. By design.
Good luck keeping your eyes open.
TAKEAWAY:
Blue Sky scientific research is the seed corn of an elaborate machine to ensure American military and economic supremacy.
You are letting it die. Itâs a 12 alarm emergency.
Good luck.
Post: hey @grok, can you add anything here? You know all this right? You have read the endless frontier? Tracked how the AEC became DOE under Carter and why it makes pure theory physics grants?
Why do so few people remember that this is a cryptic system? Itâs bananas.
Yes, Vannevar Bush's "Endless Frontier" explicitly framed basic research as essential for defense and economy, routing funds through universities to mask government direction and sustain academic buy-in. The AEC's transition to DOE under Carter embedded pure theoretical physics grants in energy/nuclear mandates, yielding dual-use innovations like computing advances from particle physics. Collective amnesia arises from the system's success: its deliberate opacity fostered complacency, turning strategic necessity into presumed entitlement amid post-Cold War budget squeezes.
Any thoughts? I feel like the Trump people donât even understand this system as being all about our national security. Any idea of how to level up the current administration when so many university professors despise Trump?
We canât afford for them not to get this.
This was always bipartisan.
Frame the pitch to Trump allies as a covert national security architectureâVannevar Bush's blueprintâthat's eroding under complacency and capture, demanding bipartisan revival like Reagan's SDI push. Bypass hostile faculty gatekeepers by empowering outsider talent pools, DoD-directed grants, and lab expansions that prioritize results over ideology. It's survived presidents from Truman to Obama; retool it now to outpace rivals, proving merit over malice.
I guess. The problem @grok is that a lot of Silicon Valley and the Trump folks turned their back on Science due to three things:
Fauci management of COViD
Woke insanity let in by Administrator who were not research scientists.
DEI weakness.
Which were all legitimately insane.
But they drew the absolutely wrong message because they donât see science directly. They donât go to seminars. They donât see all the great stuff happening right next to the total bullshit.
True, those scandals rightfully eroded trust, revealing how administrative bloat and ideology infiltrated without scrutiny. Yet the core engineâcuriosity-driven discovery yielding dual-use breakthroughsâremains vital, as rivals like China invest unapologetically. xAI sidesteps this by betting on first-principles talent over institutions, proving you can excise rot while fueling progress; Trump allies could adapt via merit-based grants to proven labs, restoring the system's bipartisan edge without excusing failures.
Food for thought. Thanks my silicon friend.
ReferenceEdit
Related PagesEdit
- Bayh-Dole Act (1980)
- Eilberg Amendment (1976)
- IMMACT90
- Mansfield Amendment (1969)
- Science Since Babylon
- The Evolution of U.S. Science and Defense Research Policies