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11: Sam Harris - Fighting with Friends: Difference between revisions
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'''Sam:''' 00:17:28 Yeah except he's the doctor who doesn't know which bone he has in hand and, and a isn't actually intending to heal you. So it's the happy accident of the doctor who happens, the mad man who happens to have a hold of the right femur and a is breaking it for the wrong reasons, but to good effect. | '''Sam:''' 00:17:28 Yeah except he's the doctor who doesn't know which bone he has in hand and, and a isn't actually intending to heal you. So it's the happy accident of the doctor who happens, the mad man who happens to have a hold of the right femur and a is breaking it for the wrong reasons, but to good effect. | ||
'''Eric:''' 00:17:44 Right. Or you know, is it doctored in folklore and from some non-accredited. | '''Eric:''' 00:17:44 Right. Or you know, is it doctored in folklore and from some non-accredited... | ||
'''Sam''' I'm so sorry to keep segueing on you, but I know you have a passion for India. I remember once traveling in India and seeing somebody's - a doctor's - it was actually a dentist shingle and it was saying you know "Western-trained Dentist" and in parentheses 'failed'. But, but having, just having just made the attempt was enough to put that on the, on the shingle. | '''Sam''' I'm so sorry to keep segueing on you, but I know you have a passion for India. I remember once traveling in India and seeing somebody's - a doctor's - it was actually a dentist's shingle and it was saying you know "Western-trained Dentist" and in parentheses 'failed'. But, but having, just having just made the attempt was enough to put that on the, on the shingle. | ||
'''Eric''' (laughter) Oh, that's good. I mean, that does. | '''Eric''' (laughter) Oh, that's good. I mean, that does... | ||
'''Eric''' So I think you get Trump wrong, right? And it's not, I see what you see and it's maddening. It's driving me crazy. The idea of spending four more precious years of my dwindling life, talking about whatever Trump less said or tweeted or worried that I don't know what would happen if we actually had a five alarm fire in the U S that had to be handled. | '''Eric''' So I think you get Trump wrong, right? And it's not, I see what you see and it's maddening. It's driving me crazy. The idea of spending four more precious years of my dwindling life, talking about whatever Trump less said or tweeted or worried that I don't know what would happen if we actually had a five alarm fire in the U S that had to be handled. | ||
'''Sam:''' 00:18:45 Do you think my model of his mind is wrong or my model of the consequences of, of him being in office is wrong | '''Sam:''' 00:18:45 Do you think my model of his mind is wrong or my model of the consequences of, of him being in office is wrong? | ||
'''Eric''' Well, I think that you were slow to give him his due. I mean, of course, as you know, I wrote this essay on kayfabe, um, anticipating that professional wrestling was going to turn out to be incredibly important. And in fact, I thought it was going to determine the presidency - that was a, a belief I had that understanding how lies play within the mind and how hypocrisy | '''Eric''' Well, I think that you were slow to give him his due. I mean, of course, as you know, I wrote this essay on kayfabe, um, anticipating that professional wrestling was going to turn out to be incredibly important. And in fact, I thought it was going to determine the presidency - that was a, a belief I had that understanding how lies play within the mind and how hypocrisy works and then a concept called namespaces out of Python programming and the like, how we compartmentalize, led me to believe that in essence we were - I had seen these other candidacies and other countries in which people seem not to be able to distinguish an actor from the character that they played, you know, whatnot. And so I, I believed that the system of laws within professional wrestling told us what was possible. And Trump actually sort of came out of the WWE through his association with, with the McMahon family. | ||
And so I, I believed that the system of laws within professional wrestling told us what was possible. And Trump actually sort of came out of the WWE through his association with, with the McMahon family. | |||
'''Sam''' Yep | '''Sam''' Yep | ||
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'''Eric''' And I believe that he actually understood deep things that psychology departments will wake up to 20 years from now. | '''Eric''' And I believe that he actually understood deep things that psychology departments will wake up to 20 years from now. | ||
'''Sam''' Yeah, I guess | '''Sam''' Yeah, well I guess... | ||
'''Eric''' let me just | |||
'''Sam''' I've suggested by analogy to the Chauncey Gardner effect, or the evil Chauncey Gardner effect. | |||
'''Eric''' Well, but that's wrong. | '''Eric''' Well, but that's wrong. | ||
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'''Sam''' Yeah, I think, I think, but it's hard to know that could happen. I mean, it's, it's definitely falsifiable. My theory is falsifiable. He could prove to me with a string of utterances that he's the evil genius that I haven't imagined him to be, but he hasn't done that. | '''Sam''' Yeah, I think, I think, but it's hard to know that could happen. I mean, it's, it's definitely falsifiable. My theory is falsifiable. He could prove to me with a string of utterances that he's the evil genius that I haven't imagined him to be, but he hasn't done that. | ||
'''Eric''' I bet if you and I had a couple of old-fashioneds between us and we sat down with | '''Eric''' I bet if you and I had a couple of old-fashioneds between us and we sat down with uh, a thousand of his tweets, we could figure out that they're recurrent structures and we could write an Eliza program to generate them to, to tangle Democrats. I think that there's much more method to the madness. And I, I don't have to go full Scott Adams (Scott, I know you're out there somewhere) to, to say that everything is intentional and brilliant. I just think he's got a, you know, it was for years, I said that if you wanted to win an election against a Democrat, you just would talk about the nuclear family, let them correct you to nuclear, and then you'd win because you'd come across as an ass. | ||
'''Sam''' Right, exactly. | '''Sam''' Right, exactly. | ||
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'''Eric''' But in the rallies that he likes, the rallies are a feedback mechanism. | '''Eric''' But in the rallies that he likes, the rallies are a feedback mechanism. | ||
'''Sam''' Right | '''Sam''' Right. | ||
'''Eric''' So he knows, he knows that the feedback that he's getting from the press in general has a constant distortion. And so by holding a rally, he can figure out to some ext..... I mean, it's like constant AB test. | '''Eric''' So he knows, he knows that the feedback that he's getting from the press, in general, has a constant distortion. And so by holding a rally, he can figure out to some ext..... I mean, it's like constant AB test. | ||
'''Sam''' But it doesn't have the fact that he wasn't canceled for one of his sins. | '''Sam''' But it doesn't have the fact that he wasn't canceled for one of his sins... | ||
'''Eric''' He was! | '''Eric''' He was! | ||
'''Sam''' No, but the fact that the fact that there's enough, there are enough people to insulate... | '''Sam''' No, but the fact that the fact that there's enough, there are enough people to insulate... he has enough fans of this style of, of communication and, and living that he's, he's uncancellable. Right? | ||
'''Sam''' The fact that we have 40% | '''Sam''' The fact that we have 40%... | ||
'''Eric''' No he's cancelled. | '''Eric''' No he's cancelled. | ||
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'''Sam''' No, no. We have 40% of the American population that fundamentally does not care about any of the things I care about in him. | '''Sam''' No, no. We have 40% of the American population that fundamentally does not care about any of the things I care about in him. | ||
'''Eric''' I disagree with this, Sam | '''Eric''' I disagree with this, Sam. I think you're getting this wrong. This is what I think might be interesting. I'm happy to be. | ||
'''Sam''' Okay. | |||
'''Eric''' I'm happy to be wrong, too. | |||
'''Sam''' So you think that at what point, are we wrong? | |||
'''Eric''' I think we're still in the stage of being so angry at Bill Clintonism... | |||
'''Sam''' Yeah. | |||
Eric | '''Eric''' That we just want to know you're not owned. We want something that convinces us that it's not taking orders... | ||
'''Sam''' Well, but we're completely insouciant on the point of you potentially being owned by the Russians when that begins to get leaked? | |||
'''Eric''' Believe me, I think about this. I don't know. I ha - I haven't followed all the details. It's possible he's compromised and under direct control. | |||
'''Sam''' Well let's just bracket that. We don't, let's say, we don't know. But when that begins to become a story, and a credible story the zero interest from the people who are worried about him being owned by the usual suspects. | |||
'''Eric''' You see, you don't carry the same anger and passion that I do for getting rid of the rot that was the American center. In other words, I believe ... one of the things that I find very confusing is, is that you and I, I think would normally have been called centers, right? But we're not crypt... we're not klepto centrists. I mean, I've never been in a position to, you know, to loot the treasury from the position of being a centrist. | |||
'''Sam''' Right. | |||
'''Eric''' So the interesting thing about the center is that the center produces the, the blank canvas of America on which we get to paint. So I'm not really super excited to get a politician that makes me swoon. I want somebody to, gesso a canvas so that we can build all of the, you know, companies and nonprofits and do all the beautiful work that makes this country amazing. | |||
I'm not trying to get my entertainment from government | I'm not trying to get my entertainment from government. The thing that crept into our system with Reagan and Bush giving way to the Clintons back to Bush = and then bizarrely I thought Obama was going to be a break from this - That thing induces a passion in some of us to get rid of it. We hate it and I don't know that you carry that passion and so I think it's harder for you to understand it and I carry it not from a right wing perspective. I carry it from a progressive dissenter. Left position. | ||
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