Fake News: Difference between revisions

There's 4 kinds of "fake news":

I) Narrative driven (NYT)
II) Algorithmic
III) Factually false
IV) Institutional

I/IV now at war w II/III.

12:10 AM · Dec 7, 2016

On XEdit

2016Edit

The fake real news seems really threatened by real fake news.

[Something smells very very off about this new "fake news" narrative.]

9:35 PM · Nov 17, 2016

Unbelievable. You seem determined to hang yourselves @CNN. I urge you to reconsider. Baring that, It would be an honor to sell you the rope. https://t.co/l6DijvatYl

8:15 PM · Nov 18, 2016

You see @CNN, I also interact with @Cernovich. I also visit "fake news" sites. As a result I never misled followers that Trump would lose.

8:19 PM · Nov 18, 2016

@CursedObject I voted HRC but I never broke ranks w/ Thiel. We agree on ~90% of what we discuss. Trump's downside risk was too much for me.

8:25 PM · Nov 18, 2016

@frihetsdottir @CNN What are you reacting to if I may ask?

9:59 PM · Nov 18, 2016

@CursedObject I fear the only thing brave here is due to the dupes being numerous, orphaned and angry. But thanks so much! It means a lot.

10:03 PM · Nov 18, 2016

This "fake news" narrative is fairly creepy. Considering doing a tweet storm on how the @fbi used @LosAngelesTimes,@newsweek to deadly ends.

11:25 PM · Nov 19, 2016

It would appear we are being psychologically prepared for a change in the algorithms that direct our attention.

4:20 AM · Nov 29, 2016

"Demonetization" on YouTube, the "fake news" narrative on MSM, & recent "suggested content" threads all hint at 'trustworthy' algos coming.

4:31 AM · Nov 29, 2016

@justinspratt That such an anonymous hit piece article is automatically born as "fake news"....but not at all sure it is a hoax.

Yet.

5:48 PM · Nov 30, 2016

There's 4 kinds of "fake news":

I) Narrative driven (NYT)
II) Algorithmic
III) Factually false
IV) Institutional

I/IV now at war w II/III.

12:10 AM · Dec 7, 2016

Any traditional "news" outfit wanting to destroy fake news can at any time just sell pure news to the public.That *none* even try tells all.

12:19 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@Jevaughn_Brown Those news algorithms that present you a picture of the world but that are tweaked to mislead you for the benefit of others.

12:35 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@JeffLonsdale refers to an earlier tweet of mine about the public bid on real news being well below its clearing price. Real news is costly.

3:57 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@imaxxs Narrative driven means the org is telling a prefab story w an arc (e.g. HRC is inevitable & adult choice) to which facts are fit.

4:08 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@davealevine thx. I don't count that as fake news. There is lossy compression and error. But my 4 categories all lead to deliberate error.

4:21 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@timgalebach that's closer to how I see it. Fake news rather than rumor has been a privilege of mandarins. Social media let in the unwashed.

4:23 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@stevebryant interesting. Try forking my taxonomy and give yours a spin.

4:27 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@seanwstl I aggregate individuals as sources. Then I subject them to smell tests as forced to read a lot of merely semi-reliable sources.

4:31 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@jsw6web Yes. But the fake news narrative is itself a higher form of fake news pointed at lower forms. It's the fakery of the elite.

4:33 AM · Dec 07, 2016

@jaredcosulich @naval Or that the NYT wouldn't find a viable business model selling mere news.

2:25 PM · Dec 12, 2016

@CodyBrown Something like sharing no more than you believe you know to be relevant, true, & fair with a full account of your bias/conflicts.

4:20 PM · Dec 12, 2016

@CodyBrown If such a person discloses the relationship and its effects or recuses herself due to bias, I'm okay either way.

4:46 PM · Dec 12, 2016

@CodyBrown I'm with you on that too!

4:52 PM · Dec 12, 2016

@CodyBrown It's so weird. The same organization will bend over backwards to disclose on a minor issue & then thumb its nose above the fold.

4:57 PM · Dec 12, 2016

@thenamecast A taxonomy is not an equivalence. Therefore I must be missing your point.

2:30 AM · Dec 17, 2016

@thenamecast "one aspires always to truth"???

Joyce Haber didn't. Sorry to get literal but "operation mockingbird" shows that to be fake.

5:22 AM · Dec 17, 2016

@thenamecast I may have misunderstood. I thought you were saying professional news orgs aspire only to truth. Haber worked for LAT & didn't.

9:50 PM · Dec 18, 2016

@21logician Sorry. Where do these numbers come from?

4:00 PM · Dec 10, 2016

@21logician How funny. I must have learned skepticism where you learned civility & inference. Where do those numbers come from?

4:18 PM · Dec 10, 2016

@21logician Tell us! Where do those numbers come from? If it's something other than a reputable source, I'll block. So where? Source please.

4:21 PM · Dec 10, 2016

@21logician You attack my scholarship. Great! I back it up (which is time consuming) if you have sources. That's scholarship. Source please.

4:29 PM · Dec 10, 2016

@21logician Normally I wouldn't bother. But you seem very earnest. Your name is @21logician (mathy!) & you have numbers. So sources please.

4:32 PM · Dec 10, 2016

@21logician Ah. So you attack scholarship and spread fake news!! Thanks for being a mensch and admitting it. So sorry to block you. Be well.

4:34 PM · Dec 10, 2016

Was really looking forward to the fake news debate that was shaping up with journalist @mikejcasey (inauspiciously beginning w this tweet): https://t.co/a5tb8tVQuP

3:22 AM · Dec 12, 2016

2017Edit

The response to MSM FakeNews cannot be a FakeNews civil war. Yes you CAN estimate crowds from photos.

Where are our PhDs, people? C'mon.

6:53 PM · Jan 22, 2017

Meet The Press

@MeetThePress

"Alternative facts are not facts. They are falsehoods," Chuck Todd tells Pres. Trump's counselor Kellyanne Conway this morning. WATCH:

3:03 PM · Jan 22, 2017

If you know my "Russell Conjugation" theory of "narrative driven" MSM FakeNews, read NYT up-conjugating the Macrons: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/style/macron-emmanuel-brigitte-relationships.html

11:41 PM · May 7, 2017

What's the most important technical idea almost no one knows? 'Russell Conjugation' is my 2017 @edge question essay. https://www.edge.org/response-detail/27181

11:57 PM · Jan 2, 2017

Russell Conjugation shout out from @RubinReport!

PopQuiz: The @latimes & @Newsweek smearing @benshapiro teamed up to destroy which actress? https://t.co/GQIIAL49lf

6:01 PM · Sep 13, 2017

Dave Rubin

@RubinReport

Hey @benshapiro, this Direct Message is for you:

6:07 PM · Sep 13, 2017

@RubinReport @latimes @Newsweek @benshapiro Answer to PopQuiz: in 1970 the FBI planted FakeNews with @latimes & @newsweek to destroy the talented Jean Seberg: https://t.co/C0ws7kFAdC

6:07 PM · Sep 13, 2017

@RubinReport @latimes @Newsweek @benshapiro FYI: I've no idea why @latimes & @newsweek are trying to stir hatred towards @benshapiro. But historically, this is a literally deadly game.

6:13 PM · Sep 13, 2017

@texaswaffle @RubinReport @latimes @Newsweek @benshapiro I made no such inference & just said so. Explicitly. I have no idea what's going on nor why our media is reporting the inverse of the truth.

6:24 PM · Sep 13, 2017

@eric_black3 See Dave's direct message and my work on Russell Conjugation.

6:25 PM · Sep 13, 2017

If you liked part I of my Sit-Down w Dave, the @RubinReport just posted the middle third, set to explain the taxonomy of "Fake News." Enjoy. https://t.co/mqkcOSdBhu

8:12 PM · Jan 05, 2017

@andyrosebrook What you write here happened in your own mind: either produce proof on say Soros or I block this as fake news about me.

8:00 PM · Jan 11, 2017

@andyrosebrook I really appreciate honest viewpoints that disagree with mine. But I said nothing about Dem/HRC/Soros. I said 'I don't know'.

8:03 PM · Jan 11, 2017

@andyrosebrook Any desire to back up what you said? Or may I assume I was correct that it was just a lie of which you were conscious?

8:06 PM · Jan 11, 2017

@andyrosebrook I really appreciate you admitting it was a false statement and walking it back. Thanks Andy.

8:10 PM · Jan 11, 2017

1/ US Deep-State use of "Fake News" in Main Stream Media to Destroy Inconvenient US Citizens: A tweetstorm in honor of Black America & MLK.

11:29 PM · Jan 16, 2017

Redacted 11/20/64 US Government letter attempting to induce Martin Luther King Jr to kill himself: http://bit.ly/dYNrtO. #COINTELPRO #MLKday

5:36 PM · Jan 17, 2011

2/ The only time we have tried "draining the swamp" of the US DeepState in memory was around the so-called Church Committee in the mid '70s.

11:32 PM · Jan 16, 2017

3/ One of the most disturbing findings from that era was the extent of manipulation of MSM journalism by the CIA in "Operation Mockingbird."

11:37 PM · Jan 16, 2017

4/ I'd however like to focus on a single well documented case of how the US Deep-State destroyed a civil rights activist w/ MSM "Fake News."

11:42 PM · Jan 16, 2017

5/ Jean Seberg was a beautiful blonde US movie star w/ an interest in Black activism, who the Hoover FBI privately decided to destroy w MSM.

11:46 PM · Jan 16, 2017

6/ In this memo the FBI requests permission to have a pregnant movie star 'Neurtalized' using a "fake news" story waiting for her baby bump.

11:53 PM · Jan 16, 2017

7/ Next to "Cheapen her image" & "cause her embarrassment" the Deep-State fabricates a Slut-shaming story that she's carrying a black child.

11:57 PM · Jan 16, 2017

8/ The FBI selects the mainstream media & therefore wants unusual precaution so the story is untraceable: "The dear girl is getting around!"

12:01 AM · Jan 17, 2017

9/ The FBI has the 5/19/70 @latimes run the story that Jean Seberg is pregnant by cuckolding her white husband with a Black Panther's baby.

12:06 AM · Jan 17, 2017

10/ In case any of you believe there's no connection between the Deep State, MSM, Journalism & Fake News, here is the full @latimes article.

12:09 AM · Jan 17, 2017

11/ The FBI 'Kompromat' against a lawful US celebrity gets amplified by @newsweek and other echoing publications in & out of the mainstream.

12:12 AM · Jan 17, 2017

12/ Jean Seberg is destroyed mentally & miscarries a white child in response. She holds an open casket press conference disproving the lies.

12:15 AM · Jan 17, 2017

13/ Seberg divorces, becomes deranged & repeatedly tries suicide every year on the anniversary of her baby's death. In 1979, she succeeds.

12:19 AM · Jan 17, 2017

14/ Eventually we drain the Deep-State swamp enough to learn it was all a deadly mainstream media/FBI hoax & @latimes admits to "Fake News":

12:21 AM · Jan 17, 2017

15/ We know our MSM news is sullying by reputation nearly everyone w a hope of bringing radical change. We don't know who is being targeted.

12:27 AM · Jan 17, 2017

/END This is the single cleanest end-to-end example I have of what we may be up against. Now it is yours. Thank you MLK. & Jean so so much.

12:30 AM · Jan 17, 2017

@VoxVaughnuli @politico Ah! So u can redefine Power-hungry dudes w/o leashes in control of DeepState as "Not DeepState"? Because: logomachy!

3:04 AM · Mar 10, 2017

@VoxVaughnuli @politico You can also reject my premise that coelacanths aren't extinct. It just has no effect on their existence whatsoever.

5:14 AM · Mar 10, 2017

@VoxVaughnuli @politico That seems kind and civil. I mean zero disrespect. I also find blaming the US deep state for everything quite nutty.

5:42 AM · Mar 10, 2017

This maybe my favorite Fake News headline ever from MSM. "Fiercely Anti-intellectual" David Gelerntner?!? Even TheOnion could do no better. https://t.co/30OSUuNpBm

6:36 PM · Jan 19, 2017

I've sparred vigorously w/ David Gelerntner on politics that divided us. That guy is a scholar, a tough intellectual & a generous gentleman.

7:17 PM · Jan 19, 2017

3 weeks ago on @RubinReport, I made the point that StringTheory/@peterthiel are 2 topics that attract fake news. Now here's P. Woit's take: https://t.co/X9AsHbwzdZ

11:10 PM · Jan 20, 2017

https://t.co/INCW26QJK3 https://t.co/s6oJEzruuG

As conjectured in the flurry of activity around fake news & Clinton's loss, we were of course being "softened up."

10:28 AM · Feb 08, 2017

Both @realDonaldTrump & @nytimes are insightful when pointing at flaws in the other, yet so far seemingly unable to see flaw in themselves.

12:37 AM · Feb 18, 2017

@CodyBrown @realDonaldTrump @nytimes He is moving from fake news as wrong facts to Russell Conjugation (e.g. "DJT Rants&raves at the press")

1:01 AM · Feb 18, 2017

@seanilling @realDonaldTrump @nytimes

Perhaps egregious, but never meant as an equivalence.

6:01 AM · Feb 18, 2017

I don't think you will find many people tougher on MSM as fake news than I am. Yet I see madness in turning the MSM into an enemy of the US. https://t.co/tDF1Qpq0EC

12:51 AM · Feb 18, 2017

⚡️ “US Use of MSM to Spread Fake News Against US Citizens.” by @EricRWeinstein

An old Tweetstorm on a tough topic: https://t.co/C0ws7kFAdC

1:45 AM · Jul 27, 2017

Owen Benjamin

@OwenBenjamin

Letfs talk history this morning. What interests You?

1:42 PM · Dec 11, 2017

Rosenstrasse protest
McCollum memo
COINTELPRO, Jean Seberg, Fake News, MSM and Church/Pike
Witold Pilecki
Johann Trollmann
Powell Memorandum
Operation Mockingbird
Meena Keshwar Kamal

5:31 PM · Dec 11, 2017

....or we could just cover the Bellamy salute and call it a day....

5:33 PM · Dec 11, 2017

Great. Let's do this then as I'm can play as an expert too: Harvard PhD. MIT/Harvard/NBER Post-Docs. Sloan Funded. NSF-Fellowship. Etc...

I'm sorry to tell you, *we* the experts have been lying to Laypeople on Trade, Immigration, STEM and Terror. The crumbling embargo was real. https://x.com/RadioFreeTom/status/941911773376139264

4:46 PM · Dec 16, 2017

1/ I was in multiple closed rooms where experts told me over and over "Well of course we can never say that to the public/donors/students/patients/voters." Cambridge MA, Washington D.C., New York. And now, San Francisco too where it hit quite a few years later.

5:11 PM · Dec 16, 2017

2/ Let me tell you what we've been lying about (in elite terminology) on MAJOR issues one by one: immigration, trade, STEM, mortgage backed securities and self-regulation, terror, fake news and conspiracy. [I will need to run a few errands now, but will return here later today.]

5:19 PM · Dec 16, 2017

3/ IMMIGRATION: EXPERT LIES Experts lie about work based immigration as needed for free markets to remove a tiny 'Harberger Triangle' of inefficiency. It is the reverse: an uncompensated taking of citizen's rights without securitization to transfer a massive 'Borjas Rectangle'.

7:44 PM · Dec 16, 2017

4/ IMMIGRATION (CONTINUED). In free markets, citizens TRADE their rights of preferential labor market access a la Coase's theorem. The giant Borjas Rectangle would stay w/ labor. Inequality could reverse. Women/minorities would enter. Income might again rise. Foreigners welcomed.

7:49 PM · Dec 16, 2017

5/ IMMIGRATION (CONTINUED). Here is an expert article I wrote on the subject (peer reviewed, UN sponsored Journal): https://www.ilo.org/sites/default/files/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_protect/@protrav/@migrant/documents/publication/wcms_201871.pdf

Of course the expert community pretends it isn't there as they support a wealth transfer through forced takings of workers' livelihoods.

7:54 PM · Dec 16, 2017

6/ TRADE: EXPERT LIES. In the theory of trade, lies are deeply layered. First there is a nonsensical emphasis on Pareto improvement (as if that was a meaningful social welfare function) & a denial of cardinal utility to stop diminishing returns arguments being applied to wealth.

8:00 PM · Dec 16, 2017

7/ TRADE (continued): [ for @RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg ] Then we substitute a Kaldor-Hicks standard for Pareto welfare as if we were going to tax winners to pay losers. Which trade economists laugh about. Because what factory worker ever heard of “unimplemeted Kaldor-Hicks”.

8:10 PM · Dec 16, 2017

8/ As the grandson of a seamstress, a door2door used clothing salesman, a self educated chemist thrown out of work for his politics and a female college grad who couldn’t work in a man’s world, it feels great to stand as a STEM PhD speaking the language of the academy for them.

8:18 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@SamHarrisOrg @RadioFreeTom 9/TRADE (CONT.): Then there‘s the appearance of “Comparative Advantage” which was recently revealed as an iron clad Exoteric explanation trade experts give to all but each other because the real Esoteric is “too complex” for the rest of us & has holes.

8:29 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@LibertyRBlack The seamstress and the Shmata salesman.

8:33 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg Nah. It’s about institutional betrayal. Nobody resents Elon Musk or Tony Stark for wealth. The poor want experts.

And I’m just looking to you & Sam as my fellow experts to help me try to stop those betrayed from sending a wrecking-ball through the infrastructure of our world.

8:45 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg Oh cool. “Institutional Betrayal” is an academic theory for trauma differentiation of @jjforegon. You in particular should find it interesting I think. People betrayed by institutions with mandates to care for them behave differently re trauma.

Helps to explain a lot in 2008-17.

8:56 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg Also, the public that is HIGH agency is looking for alternate non-institutional experts: @nntaleb @BretWeinstein @jordanbpeterson @CHSommers @SamHarrisOrg @HeatherEHeying @PiaMalaney @peterthiel @DouglasKMurray @Raheelraza @tristanharris @sparker etc....

9:04 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg

These are from trade theorist @paulkrugman in his “Protectionist Moment” piece. I’m not trying to win here. I’m worried that you aren’t watching how this neo-liberal edifice is being abandoned because the expert’s public stance was a lie.

9:22 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@GodDoesnt @RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @paulkrugman That doesn’t solve it. Are the Harvard and UChicago Econ departments elite or expert? National Academy complex? Same question. NPR? CFR?

Where are the non-elite experts? They are off the institutional grid. They were disappeared. They don’t exist. Yet they are my Shabbat guests.

9:32 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@GodDoesnt @RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @paulkrugman Same here. All I’m saying is the institutional elites compromise their institutional experts. Every day, institutional experts are free to speak against their institution’s bias. It’s the next day when survivor bias kicks in. Now repeat across non-financially independent experts.

9:40 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@fazinga They are typically educated at top universities. They are typically in non-standard employment. I frequently don’t like what they are saying as it is often disturbing.

9:42 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@SamHarrisOrg @RadioFreeTom 10/TRADE (CONT.) Look at the slide & listen to this talk from a former Clinton administration economist. Notice the words 'Esoteric' vs. 'Exoteric'. Claiming the real arguments are too complex to math guys like me is laughable:

10:14 PM · Dec 16, 2017

11/ TRADE (CONT.) Now what happened when @PiaMalaney, a Harvard PhD Economist finally got to explain to the 'experts' why the world is rejecting experts, and in their own professional language? She's *totally* ignored by the panel.

As if nothing happened.

10:26 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@SamHarrisOrg @RadioFreeTom

12/ End.

I'll pause here. But there's an entire world of Ivy-Level experts who the public suspects exist. People who have paid for their integrity with their careers. Either undisappear these good folks ... or prepare for 7 more years of Trump.

10:30 PM · Dec 16, 2017

@disitinerant @GodDoesnt @RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @paulkrugman Accurate.

1:27 AM · Dec 17, 2017

@GodDoesnt @disitinerant @RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @paulkrugman Nah. Just more systems of selective pressures ...

1:29 AM · Dec 17, 2017

@RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @paulkrugman What are your thoughts here @RadioFreeTom? I can go into detail on a number of these. We could do the fake STEM shortage backed by the @NSF and @theNASciences if you don’t believe in such things.

5:42 PM · Dec 17, 2017

@RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @paulkrugman @NSF @theNASciences Do we disagree on fundamentals over this:

6:05 PM · Dec 17, 2017

@RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @paulkrugman @NSF @theNASciences And, no I don’t call something a conspiracy because I disagree w/ experts. I usually agree w/ them! What I disageee with is using expertise to transfer wealth & agency from the supposedly childlike voters who intuit something is rigged but can’t name it in political 3 card Monty.

6:11 PM · Dec 17, 2017

@nntaleb @RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @BretWeinstein @jordanbpeterson @CHSommers @HeatherEHeying @PiaMalaney @peterthiel @DouglasKMurray @Raheelraza @tristanharris @sparker Hi Nassim, With 66 dyadic relationships between 12 individuals there was zero implied pairwise mutual endorsement or respect implied. I’m certainly happy to make that explicit here for the record if that wasn’t clear.

9:32 PM · Dec 17, 2017

@nntaleb @RadioFreeTom @SamHarrisOrg @BretWeinstein @jordanbpeterson @CHSommers @HeatherEHeying @PiaMalaney @peterthiel @DouglasKMurray @Raheelraza @tristanharris @sparker Will read. Thanks!

9:35 PM · Dec 17, 2017

https://www.ilo.org/sites/default/files/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_protect/@protrav/@migrant/documents/publication/wcms_201871.pdf

@Noahpinion So if we push out supply curves there is no first order depressing effect on price...except that maybe it rises? Man this is big. Like Nobel Big!

I mean...I did use supply and demand curves of Borjas. So...What did I get wrong? Do I need to retract:

5:10 PM · Dec 18, 2017

The mistake, IMO, is in modeling immigration purely as a shift in labor supply (partial equilibrium). Since immigrants buy stuff locally, immigration also causes a rightward shift in labor *demand* (general equilibrium).

5:28 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Hence my use of the term '1st-order' (partial equilibrium). A full model would go well beyond what you write including social services, chain migration, dependency ratios, negative externalities, concentrated impact, vote dilution, patent production, sending country impact, etc..

6:08 PM · Dec 18, 2017

A big game in economics is often who gets to use simple models & who gets forced into adding a million baroque complexities. I agree that immigrants add to demand. Also tax social services. Also pay taxes. Also send remittances. Also found businesses. Also crowd out natives. etc.

6:12 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Perhaps you were so busy reacting to the name Borjas that you missed the point of introducing Coase. Coase allows those many nth order effects to be subsumed in the choices of those impacted both positively & negatively. Hence the ability to have unlimited migration. Re-read it.

6:15 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Let's not play games. The unpopular transfer from L to K by a forced taking of the rectangle without the securitization of labor's valuable asymmetric rights and workers rights to trade them stands as an issue having nothing to do with your attack on Borjas.

Your move.

6:19 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Yes, the key is that immigration causes labor demand, as well as labor supply, to shift to the right.

That's going to shrink that rectangle a lot, and could even make the rectangle positive for native-born workers rather than negative.

6:24 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Just to show this with an easy thought experiment, imagine a bunch of rich retirees moved here and spent down their savings. That would shift ONLY labor demand, and not labor supply, unambiguously boosting wages for native-born workers.

6:29 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Now, working immigrants are not rich retirees. But you can apply the same principle. Working immigrants supply labor, but they also demand goods and services produced by labor. So both curves shift, not just one.

6:30 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Tim Bartik

@TimBartik

Also, because immigration causes shift in demand for capital goods, such as housing, in the short-run and medium run there are "accelerator" effects that temporarily boost labor demand even further. See JMP by Greg Howard: https://economics.mit.edu/files/13670

6:36 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Very true, but Eric wanted to stick to the simplest possible model, and I'm obliging him! :-)

6:38 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Look again at my paper and you will see something very odd from a mathematician: there are no equations. That came from reviewing this style of argument you are engaging in now. The point isn't this or that effect. It is forced transfers by capital vs voluntary trade with labor.

7:06 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Remember, Eric, I'm not talking equations! I'm only talking about your graphs! 😊

6:38 PM · Dec 18, 2017

So put in a moving demand curve or even negative rectangles or other red herrings.

The issue is choice. Our work based immigration programs are loved by employers and generally resented by those on whom they are imposed because they involve an unpopular and unsecuritized taking.

7:14 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Sure! No disagreement about that. I'm only taking issue with the idea that immigration can be modeled as a labor supply shock with no labor demand shock! We must include both.

7:16 PM · Dec 18, 2017

No one is arguing that in a full model. The issue isn't about immigrants either. It is about forcible non-Coasian taking of rights through law by employers without trade or consent of labor aided by economics 'experts' portrayed falsely under the banner of free markets.

7:20 PM · Dec 18, 2017

What if my company hires entry-level native-born workers? Seems like a similar situation. The only difference is citizenship.

7:22 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Noah, I'm just really not sure what game you're playing. Economists add (e.g. "your model forgot this externality!") and subtract effects (e.g. "for simplicity we neglect"). None of this matters to my paper or point. None of it. My point is expert aided non-consensual transfers.

7:29 PM · Dec 18, 2017

No games, Eric. Nothing complicated.

Just Econ 101.

7:30 PM · Dec 18, 2017

You're not even close. In econ 101, agents are rational. Remember? If workers benefit from immigration they will support it in droves. Right?

Let me guess, we have to add baroque adjustments to rationality to explain this self-defeating rejection of mass immigration? Something?

7:34 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Baroque adjustments?

Is "immigrants buy stuff" a baroque adjustment?

If so, just call me J.S. Bach!

7:46 PM · Dec 18, 2017

@Noahpinion @TimBartik Oh wow! That's what I *love* about economists: a total reliance on ad hoc selective application of standards to reach desired conclusions.

This is fun. Please apply that selective standard evenly to all of Econ 101 and let's watch your *entire* field disintegrate.

I'll wait.

7:43 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Ha! I'm trying Noah. But it's hard to Teleman something when his econ job depends on his not understanding it, no?

Now engage with the point. Why are the rational worker agents from Econ 101 not favoring this mass immigration that enriches them? Is this Econ 101 or Room 101?

7:50 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Well, I don't have polls of rational worker agents specifically, but just today I did write a post showing several polls indicating pro-immigrant sentiment in the United States: https://bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-18/anti-immigration-fervor-is-different-this-time

7:56 PM · Dec 18, 2017

In other words, I'm not Haydn anything. Can you Handel the data? :D

7:58 PM · Dec 18, 2017

https://politico.com/f/?id=0000015d-c4ac-dd39-a75d-cfbfbc3e0002

Wait, don't those swings *undermine* your Econ 101 point? The power of the Purcell getcha every time. See attached from:

Noah, I answered all your points substantively. Nothing depended on Partial v General or demand curve modeling. It's about capture. https://t.co/poJztJTjOz

8:44 PM · Dec 18, 2017

It's not about polls. It's not about Partial vs General equlibrium models. Not about Econ 101. It's about taking something valuable almost no one would give by choice by having experts defend the interests of employers with selective modeling.

8:47 PM · Dec 18, 2017

A) I'm concerned not with the interests of employers, but with the national interests of the United States of America and its economic health. B) I don't rely on selective modeling, but on empirical evidence, which I believe supports my position pretty solidly!!

8:50 PM · Dec 18, 2017

Noah, I answered every point. You are both for & against Econ 101 while I have no investment in it. If you want to forcibly transfer rights instead of letting workers trade them, ask yourself who you are really trying to benefit.

I'm trying to open borders too, but not as theft.

9:13 PM · Dec 18, 2017

If you want to write a paper detailing my failures, it will be an honor to review it fairly. But it had ZERO dependence on any of the points you made. Including demand curves. Be well.

9:14 PM · Dec 18, 2017

I will consider it. More likely a blog post. In any case, I hope you realize that the vast majority of immigration advocates in the econ profession are being intellectually honest, and not lying to anyone!

Take care, Eric!

9:21 PM · Dec 18, 2017

@Noahpinion @TimBartik If you're honest, then stop w/ the red herrings on Demand Curve modeling as my point is TOTALLY agnostic to that. You write that my paper "Is a good idea that deserves much more thought!" Okay. Don't tell me. Show me a lack of capture. Put in demand curve shocks. NOTHING changes. https://t.co/n8s40niyuf

9:32 PM · Dec 18, 2017

2019Edit

@mtracey Absolutely! Do that. Because the single biggest story in the 🌍 right now is the meta story that journalism refuses to break. That is, we gave protected LEGAL status to a profession (journalism) that needs to be *revoked* if it will no longer follow its ethics in the Twitter era.

4:23 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey Oh no. That was what interested YOU. Your gambit. I’m not you. I want to talk about *exactly* what you are avoiding!

Let me catch you up. We the public don’t let you set the Gated Institutional Narrative anymore. We’re not your sheep & don’t sit passively. We’re peers finally.

4:32 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@JomiFSC @mtracey I’m happy to address it with someone else somewhere else. This isn’t about deflection. This is about activists posing as journalists which is a major focus of mine. I refer to it frequently as narrative driven fake news:

https://t.co/x5MZnCgHp0

4:38 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett I want to know who you are. I’m happy enough to discuss @IlhanMN @AIPAC, BDS, anti-semitism. I make a well known point of trying not to talk to activists posing as journalists, except about this one topic of separating activism from journalism.

4:47 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC Well, first of all I respect you saying that. Really. No BS.

As I said on @benshapiro’s show, I prefer someone like Hunter S Thompson who admits to biases as part of the story or someone who tries for objectivity even if it’s impossible over any activist posing as a journalist.

4:54 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro I’ll take your word for it. Wanna try again? Take off your journalist hat & I’ll consider it. How are you not objective?

Here’s how I am influenced. I come from a far left family pushing Jews to aspire to nearly impossible standards. I’m influenced by pogroms & the holocaust.

5:00 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro I also lived in Jerusalem for two years that shaped my understanding in a different way. Not all of it pro Israel. But much of it.

I also have a lot of moderate Muslim Friends who are close enough to talk about Muslim closeted anti-semitism with me within their families.

5:02 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro I’d be interested to hear it. I don’t know what these words mean to you.

5:04 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro I guess you don’t come across as fair minded to me when you address me. Can you hear that? You don’t seem impartial to my way of understanding your words.

5:05 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro Okay. I’m a progressive Jew who has lived in Israel from a family touched by pogroms & the holocaust. I have some Palestinian sympathies. I‘m also exhausted by Palestinian gamesmanship. I‘m HIGHLY suspicious of BDS unless folks call for MANY boycotts *across* the region. Then no.

5:16 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro Now what about you? What about your lack of objectivity and influences?

5:17 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro Well, using words like “dork” and not being kind or impartial towards me and trying to humiliate me didn’t speed up anything. You might consider an apology. I didn’t come at you. I don’t even know who you are. I just responded. Think it over? Thanks.

5:23 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro [Also, that’s not admitting to your bias. That was an accusation arguing that your moral compass is fatigued by the double standards of others. Consider something more generous to someone who invested in de-escalating with you. Good night.]

5:26 AM · Feb 17, 2019

@mtracey @will_sublett @IlhanMN @AIPAC @benshapiro Thanks for that. Appreciated. Goodnight.

5:27 AM · Feb 17, 2019

Think about this: the US has had a proven history of conspiring repeatedly against its own citizens and destroying lives. Our check against that tyranny is FREE SPEECH/PRESS including the freedom to discuss & test wild hypotheses that begin as...wait for it...conspiracy theories.

7:08 AM · May 03, 2019

When we ban people from spreading conspiracy theories we can no longer discuss conspiracies.

In 2017, I spread a conspiracy story.

Q: Should I be deplatformed for alleging that the US has a proven ability to destroy lawful US citizens by planting fake news in mainstream media?

7:08 AM · May 03, 2019

Ending conspiracy theories means ending investigative journalism: no My Lai. It means banning Howard Zinn. Not discussing the McCollum memo. Not talking about the Dulles brothers / Kermit Roosevelt. Forgetting the untreated syphilis victims of Tuskegee.

Me to FB: Drop dead. /End

7:08 AM · May 03, 2019

Furthermore I will again spread my own researched conspiracy theory: the H-1b & the Immigration Act of 1990 were created from a conspiracy inside the @theNASciences & @nsf complex to target and betray our own STEM professionals on behalf of STEM employers: https://t.co/lYuY17MXy6

7:08 AM · May 03, 2019

Right now, EVERY major platform (@Google, @Apple, @facebook & @Twitter) both spreads and profits from hate, violence, misinformation and offensive speech. I will defend them in the same terms I defend all those they deplatformed pretending that they have a zero tolerance policy.

7:08 AM · May 03, 2019

P.S. In honor of FB's zero tolerance, I joined a pro-violence hate group on FaceBook. It has an ideology of supporting violence by Kurdish Women against ISIS, its hated target. Come join me and dare FaceBook to shut us down. We are called "Kurdish Freedom Fighters Against ISIS" https://t.co/5cHOZ0NzhV

7:17 AM · May 03, 2019

@HarrisLemberg66 @theNASciences @NSF I didn't say they don't have the legal right to boot me off.

7:35 AM · May 03, 2019

@HarrisLemberg66 I don't contradict this in the thread.

7:45 AM · May 03, 2019

@Logos18609975 No one sane is anti-violence and anti-hate regardless of ideology. They just claim to be. They aren’t thinking about why a free society shouldn’t go around *selectively* shutting down access to voices even if they have the legal scope.

3:42 PM · May 03, 2019

I‘d love to debate my friend @AndrewYang on the subject of so-called high-skill immigration.

Resolved: American STEM immigration was deliberately structured by the @NSF & @theNASciences via fake news to undermine the free market bargaining power of the US Scientist & Engineer.

2:50 PM · Aug 14, 2019

I hope it’s clear that I‘m proposing this out of love for @AndrewYang and his mission. But I want to support his policies as well as the man I consider a friend. If he’s to stand a chance, he has to unlock the Xenophilic-Restrictionist mega block of voters that MSM denies exists.

3:02 PM · Aug 14, 2019

Our US immigration problem is severe but it is not immigrants. Our problem is a despicable class of cynical fellow Americans hiding behind the immigrant who have weaponized our tolerance and used immigrants to transfer wealth from US labor to US capital. It’s the wealth transfer.

3:07 PM · Aug 14, 2019

@rsbcvet @AndrewYang @NSF @theNASciences Yes.

10:36 PM · Aug 14, 2019

@jz_manutd @AndrewYang @NSF @theNASciences Some skilled. Some Asylum. Some family reunification.

1:07 AM · Aug 15, 2019

I will be coming back to this old tweet repeatedly. A plan to reassert narrative control before 2020 was evident immediately after Trump’s win shocked our institutional elite. “Fake news” was it’s placeholder buying time to figure out how to end rivals to “authoritative sources.”

2:51 PM · Sep 05, 2019

I’d say that old tweet wasn’t too far off after all. We just had it dribbled in increment by increment with changes in “Terms of Service” & the slow crushing push to numb our outrage from our institutional class, article by article, until we welcomed our own censorship w/ thanks.

3:03 PM · Sep 05, 2019

@_mashjam_ Yes. We have infatuations who want to go back to the legacy narrative which I detest. We have people who have bought the Trump narrative which I detest.

What is supposed to happen is something new. Not MSM and not Trumpian. Right now it’s a war between two absurd camps.

3:12 PM · Sep 05, 2019

2020Edit

I‘m noticing a disconnect as well. Since I know very little about this, here’s what I generally do: watch for any disconnect between images & reported news.

If they’re fake, that’s a news story. If they are misinterpreted, that too is a news story. Then ask “Where is that news?” https://x.com/LaloDagach/sta/LaloDagach/status/1227025499949600775

4:20 AM · Feb 11, 2020

In short, the best we can usually do is map instutional silence and media under-reporting from a baseline. Here, the *minimal* baseline possible story is panic based on misinterpreted images. When something like that goes underreported, it’s usually a major clue something is off.

4:20 AM · Feb 11, 2020

Also, there is nowhere I expect more lies than public health and safety. It seems to be part of the public health playbook and must be taught in MPH school.

The weird highly conserved phrase to look for?

“The Public was Never in Any Danger.” as well as all its variants.

4:24 AM · Feb 11, 2020

But I have no clue how to interpret the images. Zero.

I’m looking for CDC guidance, NPR stories about the images and institutional experts willing to use their own name and credentials to explain what we are seeing as normal for China.

If this is way overblown: just tell us.

4:29 AM · Feb 11, 2020

@Shirtwascash That was my point. Just report that.

4:32 AM · Feb 11, 2020

As I said repeatedly, @MSNBC is not a news network. It’s a FakeNews(tm) organization. Or if that seems harsh, an ingrown hair on a blackhead on a polyp on a puss filled boil on the sphincter of democracy. There was no primary in 2020, thus this election was neither free nor fair.

4:29 AM · Dec 2, 2020

Ariana Pekary Gilbert

@arianapekary

Actually, I just reviewed my journal. On 4/25/19, I was told that we were never to pursue Andrew for an interview on our show (along with several others). The list of candidates was dictated, but the reasons for allowing them or not were not explained.

5:58 PM · Nov 22, 2020

#SlipTheDISC This idea will spread as we all wake up to the fact that this is increasingly happening to us all.

Money manager @RayDalio is welcome on The Portal to discuss this if he wants a different forum to explore idea suppression. I have no previous knowledge of his case.

9:31 PM · Feb 03, 2020

The idea here of a narrative that precedes the facts is what I have termed the “Narrative Driven” style within the taxonomy of Fake News along with the three other kinds: ‘algorithmic’, ‘instutional’ and ‘false’.

9:38 PM · Feb 03, 2020

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-27/los-angeles-times-reckoning-with-racism

Well, you did kinda help the FBI suicide Jean Seberg by letting them plant fake news to destroy her psychologically.

7:04 PM · Sep 27, 2020

Los Angeles Times

@latimes

For a large portion of our past, the @latimes was an institution deeply rooted in white supremacy.

It’s important, in this season of reconciliation and reflection, that we apologize for our past.

7:04 PM · Sep 27, 2020

Just thinking about what you did to Black Americans and Jean Seberg makes me sick to my stomach.

7:04 PM · Sep 27, 2020

But maybe reckon with your own history. You are still destroying lives in 2020 after already recognizing this problem years ago as far back as 1979 (see attached).

Just become a newspaper. That’s it. That’s all. Just print news. That’s all you have to do. Why is this difficult?

7:04 PM · Sep 27, 2020

@CaitlinPacific Every 6 months or so...

8:12 PM · Sep 27, 2020

As the @latimes finally recognizes its racist past today, there is a more important issue. Will the LATimes and other newspapers call for an investigation into history and present status of their spreading of fake news on behalf of the US deep state and other actors? You S.O.B.s.

7:44 PM · Sep 27, 2020

“Here at X we are fully committed to free speech. The diversity of ideas is in fact the very reason this company was founded. At the same time, we at X strive for diversity inclusion so that all users on our platform may have an optimal user experience sharing perspectives.”

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

“Of course it is never possible to please all users and our space is actually more ferociously competitive than our critics realize. However rather than fear competition, at X we welcome it and encourage those who think that this can be done better to launch their own companies.”

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

“We believe that through a process we call “Dynamic Best Practices” our adaptive policies meet the needs of all our users. That is why we launched our awareness campaign “Free Speech without Hate Speech” with leading academics to share their research in advising our every move.”

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

“We at X are proud of our commitment to both Trust and Safety. That is why we have worked with thought leaders from across a diverse group of authoritative & respected institutions to formulate dynamic Terms of Service to constantly adapt to our mission of diversity & inclusion.”

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

These concepts are being used to control our thoughts, bias our conversations, chill our speech even when it is not endangering anyone and simply discussing and weighing branches of *legitimate* decision trees of possibilities that Tech now insists we assign zero weight.

Sorry..

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

Of course there is no problem with protecting individuals from harm and abuse. The issue is that once Tech defines Fake News, Diversity, Inclusion, Equity, Hate Speech, etc to include methods making reality illegal, *any* inconvenient user can be removed, down ranked & deboosted.

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

This is undoubtedly coming from multiple sources. Some of it is common pressures producing common intellectually incoherent responses. But other parts of this are likely coming from quiet “Working Groups” with report titles like “Coordinating Response to Hate Speech & Fake News.”

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

Now all that doesn’t come from a company X. But it comes from the same place from which all the mindless corporate tech drivel they all produce originates. And all I had to do was get myself in the right frame of mind to write it. So I sat on a porcelain throne, and there it was.

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

“In fact many don’t realize that we actually work *with* our competitors across platforms, and even with our regulators to make sure that we can learn from their experiences and share our knowledge. Because in the end, at X we know that business is about serving you, the people.”

9:58 PM · Nov 25, 2020

@FirearmsPB Thank you thank you.

I would like to thank my teachers.

10:09 PM · Nov 25, 2020

@JaimeVelo I would put it differently. Merde. If you will.

11:57 PM · Nov 25, 2020

2021Edit

Has Reddit discovered that they could force the news media to report the anger we all feel towards that same corporate fake news complex by memes that direct symbolic anger at MSNBC/FOX/CNN to drive price action in say a small farming supply company that manufactures Pitchforks?

3:11 PM · Jan 30, 2021

I would far prefer a clever symbolic campaign to outsmart our leadership driving us off a cliff to what will come if we fail in stopping the pressur building to what will soon be unsustainable levels. Almost all of us want to be free of our media, corporate & financial overlords.

3:18 PM · Jan 30, 2021

I get really tired of this. Yes Michael, he has. He made *numerous* good calls, particularly early on when all this madness was less clear. “Panther in a China shop.” “Fake News.” Etc. Locals is a good call!

I’m not a conservative/libertarian so more recent stuff I don’t know.

8:39 PM · Nov 02, 2021

But just as a favor, when you see a massive mean-Spirited online campaign to delegitimize and target a human, don’t add to it. 🙏

Dave has made numerous good calls in my experience with him. I’m less current than I used to be however as our politics and online focus separated.

8:39 PM · Nov 02, 2021

@schmotdocker https://t.co/x5MZnCgHp0

Yes.

9:07 PM · Nov 02, 2021

@schmotdocker Yes. It was:

https://t.co/x5MZnCgHp0

9:48 PM · Nov 02, 2021

2022Edit

9 out of 10 folks who answered this Twitter poll, believe something that no factcheckers have sought to debunk and no major news desk will touch.

Such is the nature of fear. We live in a previously free society in fear of a fake story, spread by news that almost no one believes.

6:53 PM · Jun 29, 2022